Stretching and Flexibility basic approach vs ballistic vs "pulsing"

[kingmint]

Hello everyone

 

I joined this board to have access to resources that will hopefully help me develop a good level of flexibility, from a very poor base (can't touch my toes). I have the Stretching and Flexibility book and a number of the video products offered here, but haven't yet started a consistent training program.

 

I'm very interested to see that many on here are experimenting with a range of approaches beyond the basic approach outlined in S&F of one session a week of the contract relax protocol. I've downloaded the ballistic stretching videos, and the new front splits video with the "pulse" method.

 

I wonder if those of you have practiced the S&F approach, the ballistic approach, and/or the pulse approach have any views now on what a good complete flexibility program might look like? Have you had good results combining elements of all three approaches, or do you favour one or two of them? Given the results you've had from these various approaches, how would you advise a beginner to start their flexibility training from scratch?

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Finally, I'm 38, and have done quite a lot of stretching in the past - and always quit due to not seeing results. Do you think it is possible to make real gains at my age? Has anyone done this?

 

Thanks

 

Eric

[Craig]

Having tinkered with many formats there is one that I'm coming to like very much:

 

- daily ballistic stretching. ONE stretch only. Cycle which stretch you are doing every 30 - 45 days, take a rest for a few days in between these cycles.  3 x 72 to begin with, work up to 5 x 108

- once per week do a big session (2 hours+) of C/R repatterning stretching.  On this day, rest from doing the ballistic stretching

- as often as possible move through your entire range of motion.  sit on the floor in different positions as often as you can. move in as large a variety of interesting and novel ways as you can each day.

[Frederik]

I do not think anyone has a 100% clear overview of what, when and how ballistics should be used. The nuts and bolts of that is yet to be determined as far as I am concerned, but the cat is out of the bag, that much is plain.

 

From my perspective: What Craig is saying is likely a good approach if you are already a fairly advanced stretcher. I do not think it is a beginners practice, that view may change, but that is my position currently.

 

By all means play with pusing, micromovements, ballistics even if just starting out. But, I think long term much larger dividends could be payed by going through say the mastery series and really getting intimate with that. And when I say "going through" I mean spending anywhere from 6 months to 2+ years.

 

This is of course entirely dependent on the person, his or hers movement background, level of strength etc. But having a clear experience of what movements feel like, developing a sense of agonist/ antagonist relationships, contract/ relax, knowing the poses and postures, developing some basic strength, plus all the thousands of other little things is what will make ballistics effective later on. This subject has been on the mind of quite a few people lately so I am sure something more tangible will emerge as time progresses.

 

Just my view on the matter.

[jon.valentine]

Like with many things, it depends. I don't think you'll have any regrets by committing yourself to a regular and consistent practice, but you have to start doing something.

 

If you only have the willpower to do one stretch once a week then do that, if you can do more then do more. If it gets to a point where you have to talk yourself into doing a session then either dial it back, or switch to a different stretch.

 

For a beginner I would have them do as little as possible while still maintaining progress; if you throw everything in the mix how do you know what works for you? 

 

As Fred said, by all means play with some of the other stuff but have a core practice that stays consistent and ride that until you stop seeing improvement, then add something else.

[Tones]

Having tinkered with many formats there is one that I'm coming to like very much:

 

- daily ballistic stretching. ONE stretch only. Cycle which stretch you are doing every 30 - 45 days, take a rest for a few days in between these cycles.  3 x 72 to begin with, work up to 5 x 108

- once per week do a big session (2 hours+) of C/R repatterning stretching.  On this day, rest from doing the ballistic stretching

- as often as possible move through your entire range of motion.  sit on the floor in different positions as often as you can. move in as large a variety of interesting and novel ways as you can each day.

What would a pulsing routine look like?

Kingmint, there is more to flexibility then going from A to B. Managing pain and imbalances (which has a massive affect on your mentals), self massage, you can use it just to feel good, learning new ways to move within yourself, you can use it to compliment other areas of your life (eg a sport or a busy life).

[Craig]

Hi Tones,

 

Not quite sure what you mean by a pulsing routine?  Do you consider pulsing and ballistic stretching different?

 

MH

[AndeL]

I am 38 and have made real gains... 38 is young. If you want it, do it. S&F gives good progressive lessons. Build on contract relax (c-r) & daily 5+. You could embody this first, there is much to be gained from this. Read and do the lessons, why not?

[Emmet Louis]

My take is if we look at flexibility from a nervous system point of view then methods have to be cycled over time to ensure progress same as we cycle strength training methods to ensure strength gains.

Level one in my mind is do the joints work correctly? Can you rotate them freely? Is your breathing pattern correct? Are your stabilisers functioning correctly and not having a prime mover take over the role of a stabiliser? Do your muscles understand how to lengthen while loaded?

 

After that level two is dependent on what you want to achieve in the next three years. My answers for someone aged 35 who just wants to feel a bit free-er in their day to day life and while chasing the kids around is going to be vastly different to one of my pole dancers /  contortionists who are looking to make a career out of their bodies which in turn would be vastly different to a powerlifter prepping for a competition.

 

All the methods work for flexibility training when applied correctly, what you choose is fully dependent on goals and the course you're choosing in life.


 

[SDowd]

I will throw in one additional piece: incorporating tissue work to supplement and support the stretching. In my worldview they are inseperable (like two sides of a coin.)

 

I think the tissue work is especially for people who are older or who have done a lot of sports or weightlifting.

 

The reason is that you can't out stretch density.

 

This is my personal bias from what worked best for my body and from teaching weekly mobility classes and working 1on1 with a bunch of massage clients.

 

For a 38 year old who has some experience stretching but with unsatisfactory results I think their program should focus on:

 

1. Basic contract / relax / PNF style stretching

2. Mixed with long static holds and "wriggling"

3. Tissue work on stubborn areas

4. Very light micro bouncing (wushu-ish) whenever it feels intuitive but don't force yourself to rigidly follow a wushu routine entirely by itself.

[Tones]

Hi Tones,

 

Not quite sure what you mean by a pulsing routine?  Do you consider pulsing and ballistic stretching different?

 

MH

It'd be like comparing the drying cycle vs the washing cycle of washing machines in terms of what the machines does.

In the brain of my head, ballistic is a more gross explosive movement that uses the leverage of momentum where a pulsing movement would be more focused "pull through", trying to add on that extra 3-4% of muscle recruitment to get the position slightly more and more deeper and deeper. 

Ballistic would be more about overall conditioning where pulsing is more neural. Ballistic naturally incorporates pulsing though but is more taxing.

 

 

All the methods work for flexibility training when applied correctly, what you choose is fully dependent on goals and the course you're choosing in life.

Risk/Reward of going though with it:

*Risk - doesn't work, may feel worse, short term pain, injury, you become afraid of your body

*Reward - does work, learn new skills, feel better, less daily stress, more inclined to choose healthier options, when you're 75 that slip in the shower more likely to just be a stumble, easier to get out of bed when you're 100, learn how to not be afraid of your body

Risk/Reward of not doing it:

*Risk -  may feel worse, injury, when you're 75 that slip in the shower is more likely to be a fall, you become more afraid of your body

*Reward - more time to do other things,