Head to Toe stretching

[Nathan]

I noticed that my progress seemed to slow recently, and upon reflection I realized that I had begun to dread the sets and had sped up my pulses considerably. It occurred to me that this type of approach probably wasn't going to convince my body that the new ranges were useful, so I made an effort to slow down, be more mindful, and breathe

 

The past few sessions I have simply focused on pushing progressively further into new ROM and hinging at the hips without using targets. It feels much better to slow down, and I am no longer dreading the sessions. That said, whatever I am doing differently is absolutely frying my right hip flexor - I am assuming it is the hip flexor since it is the muscle at the front crease of the hip. It is progressively worse with each set of pulses, and on the second and third sets I have to use my arms to lift my leg up and back down to the floor. The fatigue/discomfort does not last more than a few minutes. Does anyone have any insight as to what might be causing this? The left side is also slightly fatigued, but I can still lift the leg after the sets without assistance from the hands.

[AndeL]

What are you doing between sets? I do some quick limbering, stall bar shoulder stretch, cobra, seiza, hip flexors, cobra again or similar. So it is basically a demented/demonic sun salutation series. However, this does seem to balance out the effects of massively overdoing the active forward bending.

 

Good work on the slowing down etc and getting through the dread. I have changed my tactic a little to pulling as far in to the stretch, using exhalation and relaxation (maybe 5 breaths), then starting my pulses. So the focus is on where can I actually get to actively first, without ballistics & staying in control, then going at it. Just for some variety.

[ChrisScott]

I'm 23 days into my standing head to toe stretching. The past few days have been a struggle, it's the first time I've felt any kind of plateau. I think it's really catching up to me. That said it started getting hard when I had a weekend off as I wasn't at home to do it. That's counterintuitive, but definitely how it seems.

[Nathan]

Andrew - I don't really do anything between my H2T sets. I shake the legs out a bit and then get right back to it. I used to only do the calf stretches prior, although lately I have added a bit of piriformis stretching and on some days I will do some hip flexor stretching and "accessory" work like shi da pan #1 bounces with added weight to wake the hamstrings up. I do other stretches at different times during the day (at the end of workouts or at night), but nothing between my sets. Yes, I am playing with variety as well - rotating the leg a bit during pulses to see how different angles feel, changing up speed, and pulling from different anchor points. I plan to continue like this for about a week - something of a deload - before going back to using targets.

 

Chris - I had a couple of days off around when I started to feel some stagnation as well. Could just be a coincidence. I toyed with the idea of taking a break from pulses for about a week since fatigue has been accumulating for a while now, but I decided to play with this "active deload" focusing on the experience rather than hitting targets for a week and see how I feel after that.

[Jack Carreira]

I'm here for a piece of advice in this topic. I'll try to be brief, but I need to explain some stuff first.

 

I always have been the "inflexible guy" in all the classes I take. The splits was not so much a problem, but hamstring was a really (REALLY) different topic, they were like rocks, especially the left one. No matter how hard I stretch, how much time I use to stretch them, they were always tight.

 

At the beginning of this year, started to do some Jefferson Curls, and just that one exercise changed everything. A month later I could put my hands on the ground without too much problem.

 

I started with this ballistic program on August 10. I saw a lot of improvement a day or two later. Soreness in the morning started to be a normal thing, but after the 36-40 reps of each leg, they feel a lot better.

After that, I started to feel a little more soreness/tightness in my left hamstring/glute (btw, I have patellar tendinosis on that leg, and I'm working a lot to definitely recover from that). It was not a big deal because ballistic stretch causes this kind of stuff, so I keep doing it.

 

One day, in week 2 I think, in a contemporary dance class, the teacher has the great idea of doing a couple of explosive pistols in one of the choreographies. Always with the left leg. Not to much problem because I train pistols a lot, but the combinations of the soreness and that exercise was a little too much.

 

After that, the "soreness" in my left hamstring (at the very top, I think thats the insertion of it, because for a couple of days I can't even said if it were my glute or my hamstring) started to be a lot more pronounced.

I continued with the ballistics stretches because f*ck me, and everyday it feeled worse. Now, if I sit on a bus for 30 minutes, I start to feel a discomfort on that zone (the top insertion of the hamstring).

 

If I warm up that leg I can stretch almost with any discomfort, but 10 minutes later I start to feel it again.

What I'm trying to know is if this is a "normal" thing, that I just need to "endure" until it disappears, or if it can be something else, something that I could worsen if I keep doing this stuff.

 

I rested from ballistic stretches for two days, and it started to feel better.

 

Yesterday stretch again, and it doesn't feel too bad, but today's morning reps were hard to do (did a lot of relaxing in between bounces, and the bounces were really small), and not even near my limit (of that leg).

 

Right leg has no problem at all, I freaking love that leg.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, I just tried to be clear.

[Emmet Louis]

I think the general advice of work to pain not through pain is needed here.

 

From the sounds of it you need to back off the ballistics completely and just let what ever happened heal up. Give it a week or two break then start back gently and see how it goes.

[Jack Carreira]

I think the general advice of work to pain not through pain is needed here.

 

From the sounds of it you need to back off the ballistics completely and just let what ever happened heal up. Give it a week or two break then start back gently and see how it goes.

Thank you very much. I'll stop the ballistics with the left leg and continuing massaging, rolling and carefully relax stretching.

 

I'll post the results after recovery.

[MattPark]

Hit head to toe plus 2 fingers the other day, of a morning I can get to head plus fist in 20 pulses.

 

I'm having some issues as I get progressively deeper from head to 4 fingers and beyond my knee start to hyper extend, it's quite uncomfortable and it makes my pulses inconsistent. I always have my quads and tibialis anterior contracted.

[Ciaran]

@Jack - First thing, exactly how long ago did this happen? Your description is classic (warmed up, ok, hurts after) for some tendon flare up. Your muscles were probably pretty tired and the stress went to the tendon. What Emmet said, have a rezza. However, how long ago it happened, and what you've been doing since then is relevant to what you do from this point.

[Emmet Louis]

@Matt try sit back into the movement a bit more. 

[Jack Carreira]

@Jack - First thing, exactly how long ago did this happen? Your description is classic (warmed up, ok, hurts after) for some tendon flare up. Your muscles were probably pretty tired and the stress went to the tendon. What Emmet said, have a rezza. However, how long ago it happened, and what you've been doing since then is relevant to what you do from this point.

The first signs of tightness started about two weeks ago. Everyday was a little more pronounced, until about week ago when I did that ton of pistols with that leg. Next morning my "glute" (it wasn't my glute, but I thought it was) was really stiff and tight. After that every day was worse, until 4 days ago, when I stopped the ballistic for two days and it started to feel a lot better. So better that I started with the ballistics again, and worsen the condition (just a little again), post my history here, and stopped completely (with that leg) again.

 

One thing that I didn't said is that I do heavy slow lifting like 2 or 3 times a week for my patellar tendinosis (3 supersets of 4 sets of of 6RM of back squats (120kg), fronts squats (100kg), and quad squats (110kg), all just until 90° angle, and with a tempo of 3030). More info about Heavy Slow Resistance Training here and here.

 

Other than that, just handstand training, pulling strength training, and one or two sessions of parkour without too much impact. My computer is at ground level, so I sit in squat position like 2 or 3 hours (accumulatively) the days I need to do lot of stuff in the computer. 

Thats basically my entire life right now.

[ChrisScott]

I'm calling it quits for now. The doms are just too uncomfortable, even with 20 minutes of hamstring soft tissue work. The doms don't stop Head to toe at any other level or any other movement really, but elevating my leg to nose height is just too uncomfortable now. I feel I could potentially be at a point where the "real change" is about to happen with my body, but I kind of want my hamstrings to feel normal over a perfect standing head to toe at this stage haha. A bit disappointed I didn't do the 30 days I set myself early on, but I have been consistent and seen great results.

[Emmet Louis]

Just wait for the super compensation from this

[Tris]

Started this morning. I rarely get DOMS and really hope that continues here! As well as H2T I am also doing a set in the end-range of Kit's lunge hamstring stretch. This is similar to the elephant walk where you straighten the knee into the stretch.

 

Initial impressions: breakfast has never tasted so good; and the endorphin rush when you stand-up after the set could get rather addictive.

 

I might video the progress every week or so out of interest.

 

I have a few questions:

1. What is the difference between same-side elbow to toe and head to toe? Is it the slight hip rotation when reaching with the elbow compared to with the head?
2. I have always done my hardest stretching first thing in the morning. Would it be just as good to do the 3 x 72 before breakfast (after some limbering)? Or, would it be best to do a 1 x 36 and then do the 3 x 72 later in the day? I'm happy with the full dose first thing if it won't slow progress much.
3. As well as DOMS, is it normal for muscles to feel tighter after the sets?

Looking forward to exploring how this goes. Perhaps not long before I can be like this guy.

[Nathan]

@Chris - I feel your pain... literally... every time I bend over   I considered stopping as well, but decided to try this no-target deload. After a week of this I will go back to using the targets and report back with the results.

 

@Tris - This will depend on the person, but I think it is mostly the angle created at the hips. If you open my IG on a PC, you should be able to scroll down just a bit and see a thumbnail of my elbow to toe just below my head to toe. Notice that my torso is much closer to my legs in the head to toe since I do not have the leeway that the bend of the shoulder offers. Of course this will differ slightly depending on your shoulder flexibility. As for doing your sets in the morning, that should be perfectly fine. Kit is doing all of his in the morning. I think you could probably throw the 32-pulse morning set in at night as a kind of reminder to your body that would work very similar to Emmet's original program, but I will let him confirm or deny. I always feel looser immediately after my sets. After some time has passed and the soreness has returned, it's more of a slight hesitation by the body when bending and feeling the soreness, but it's not difficult to move through in such a way that I would call it tightness. Similar, perhaps. My guess is that it will be different for everyone.

[Tris]

Thanks Nathan. Those two thumbnails show the difference beautifully. My guess is the same side elbow puts more emphasis on the outer-head hamstring, no elbow middle-head, and opposite elbow inner-head. Love the idea of a 32r at night, as I often do weighted J-curls as a quick limber before bed to feel looser overall. Will see how it feels over next couple of weeks.

[Emmet Louis]

@Tris: You can just do the 3 x 72 first thing in the morning, some of my students do that and it works fine for them. There's no need to do the 1 x 36 in that case but you can throw it in later in the day if you feel like it.

[ChrisScott]

I don't know what to do with myself. The ballistics session is calling my name. This is like some weird kind of Stockholm syndrome.

[Nathan]

@Chris - Do some kind of upper body ballistics and just around the time you can't move your arms anymore you can swap back to H2T

[jon.valentine]

I had to miss a few days over the weekend due to competing at weightlifting nationals (and getting sick), but started back up again yesterday and even though I have been going pretty low volume compared to a lot of folks (50x2 sets) I'm consistently hitting two fingers within about 10 pulses and getting to one finger at about 40 or so pulses (in the first set). There is a L/R difference of about a finger which is due to a difference in dorsiflexion in my ankles which goes away as I warm up. 

 

Does anyone else fall out of their 'groove' when doing h2t?

 

Sometimes I'll being going really well, nice smooth deep pulses, hitting the target comfortably and then I'm suddenly struggling to reach it and everything feels locked up. I generally have to stop, re-cue myself to extend along the leg, relax the quad and abs and then start again with a higher target for a few pulses. I can't quite pinpoint what throws me off though.

 

The weird pinching sensation in my hip crease had actually calmed down a lot last week, until I did a bit of a static hold and was wriggling around a bit my hip went clunk and it came back. I can still feel it now but it's not as severe as when it first started up so I'm going to assume that 'something good' is happening in the hip.

[Nathan]

Hey Jon - I don't really experience any setbacks mid-set, but I do pause quickly and reset my position mid-set fairly often. It may take 2-3 pulses to get back to where I was, but this is more me easing back in rather than feeling locked up at all.

 

I've felt the "clunk" once in my left hip early on in my H2T journey (foot on the floor), and more recently once in the right hip (foot elevated). Both times I could feel that something was about to happen - like something needed to shift to push any further. Lately the muscles at the crease of my right hip have been fatiguing a lot by the end of sets 2 and 3. This started after the clunk, but I don't know if it is related. I never noticed anything in the same area of the left hip, either before or after the clunk there.

[Emmet Louis]

@Jon: I get that a good bit on some positions, particularly pancake. sometimes it'll be head touching floor then next minute i'll be struggling to go forward. A bit of a wiggle or coming out of the position fixes it for me.

[jon.valentine]

Thanks for the responses guys! 

 

I have a feeling it's because I'm trying to force the movement, as I think I get a little excited/impatient and start to tighten up. I noticed it a bit this morning and consciously tried to slow down a bit and relax which helped a lot.

 

I need to re-cultivate the mindset of being comfortable with discomfort. 

[Frederik]

I also have an experience of what Jon and Emmet describes above. Especially with the head-to-toe if done freestanding there is a fair bit of balancing, and probably no two bounces are exactly the same. Could it simply be that if one veer into a slightly different (tighter line) the groove is lost, and a reset is in order? The outer hamstring is obviously the tightest in the vast majority of people and so going in that direction does increase the stretch.

 

However, If I do purposefully slow bounces I get very little of this. The depth is not quite the same of course.

[Tris]

Just had a great 45 minutes running a 32mm PVC pipe between my calves and lower hamstrings.

 

However, the tightest part of my H2T line is the hamstring right up near the ischial tuberosity. I find it difficult to get pressure up this high by just pulling up on the pipe.  Is there an alternate way to release the fascia with the same intensity as you get right down underneath the knee joint?