Craig's Ballistic Stretching

[SwissDanny]

Cant resist:    Pain-face kills your gainz Bro!  

 

I think this is closer to Cossack squat that Pu Bu, which would have the torso over the extended leg and the extend foot on the ground pointing away.  Having done a lot on Cossack recently, and tried Pu Bu a bit for me one feels like a progression towards the other to some extent, but also different emphasis.  But others are much more experienced than me.

[Frederik]

Can anyone please give some feedback on my Pu Bu stretch?

Working on it, gains are coming slowly. 

 

Well since you asked for it: first off and most important when stretching loose the shoes, seriously! There is heaps of information here on why going more barefoot is a good idea, especially when you are stretching, so I will not belabor the point any further.

As SD said keep the foot of the straight leg on the ground as much as possible. Think of sinking back, down and into the hip of the straight leg. Try to become as upright as possible in the torso. Further: At some point try reaching for your feet (keeping the on the ground as much as you possibly can.)

I think it looks fairly good, of course a side view would be nice. And yes, gains do come slowly, I find it interesting that people have a notion that because they are exploring a new or different type of stretching that there should be instantaneous and massive increases in flexibility - sorry it does not work quite like that. Anyway, good work, keep it up.

 

regards

 

Frederik

[jon.valentine]

@jon - are you aware of any hip impingement you may have? what is your mobility like with your hips? do you get a pinching pain in front of your hip when you internally rotate your hip with hip flexion and aDduction?

 

@Craig - is there a youtube video of Kit's piriformis variation? not necessarily the ballistic movement but the position?

No history of impingement, this has just come up recently. The sensation comes on with flexion and aBduction/external rotation of the hip. Did some exploration in Dave's class last Thursday and a strong dose of  piriformis/glute stretching made a difference. Also getting a ball in the glute right around the ischial tuberosity on that side went straight to the spot where I get the pinch when flexed.

So still going with a shotgun approach of ball, piriformis, glute, quad, hip flexor stretching daily and will see where that takes me.

 

On the plus side I'm consistently hitting 3 fingers comfortably, so yay?

[oliviaa]

Hi Jon

 

If it's the same spot as I have been working on, suspect TFL. Trying to sit in Burmese position (as for meditating) I find that my right knee is unhappy and the right leg won't rest comfortably on the floor regardless of whether the right foot is in front or not (though it's more comfortable when the right foot is in front, meaning the right knee angle is more open). As you know, I have quite loose hips generally – side splits is no difficulty, nor full tailor – but the Burmese position is difficult, and the joint pain in the right knee anxiety-provoking. I worked on piriformis on the RHS for ages and it didn't really make a big difference. What did, however, was doing the big partner hip flexor (and also daily limbering versions) with the right leg back and right hip dropped lower than the left in order to get that TFL line. Brilliant effects in my body. Similar to how above you reported that side bending can get into the 'problem' spot.

 

Cheers

Oli

[jon.valentine]

Thanks Oli! I'll add that in to the mix as well.

[Maarten]

Cant resist:    Pain-face kills your gainz Bro!  

 

I think this is closer to Cossack squat that Pu Bu, which would have the torso over the extended leg and the extend foot on the ground pointing away.  Having done a lot on Cossack recently, and tried Pu Bu a bit for me one feels like a progression towards the other to some extent, but also different emphasis.  But others are much more experienced than me.

 

 

Well since you asked for it: first off and most important when stretching loose the shoes, seriously! There is heaps of information here on why going more barefoot is a good idea, especially when you are stretching, so I will not belabor the point any further.

As SD said keep the foot of the straight leg on the ground as much as possible. Think of sinking back, down and into the hip of the straight leg. Try to become as upright as possible in the torso. Further: At some point try reaching for your feet (keeping the on the ground as much as you possibly can.)

I think it looks fairly good, of course a side view would be nice. And yes, gains do come slowly, I find it interesting that people have a notion that because they are exploring a new or different type of stretching that there should be instantaneous and massive increases in flexibility - sorry it does not work quite like that. Anyway, good work, keep it up.

 

regards

 

Frederik

 

Thank you both for your replies!!

Most of the time I'm not wearing any shoes so that is easy :-)

 

I like the que of sitting more back on the hip of the straight leg, that I felt much better.

Going to work on it and will post the progress in a couple of weeks.

[Craig]

Pu Bu is an interesting beast that I'm forever working on.  My coach always said if you can do a proper Pu Bu you can do a side splits as well, this is starting to make sense to me.  Not sure if there's point in training both side splits and pu bu, or if pu bu will unlock side splits, or vice versa.  Still experimenting.

 

Maarten, I can't see your video from here, will check it out once I am in a non-firewalled location and report back.

[oliviaa]

MH ... I can do side splits but not Pu Bu. O

[[DW]]

MH ... I can do side splits but not Pu Bu. O

 

..the plots thickens.

[Emmet Louis]

I concur with Olivaa, plenty of my girls can side split in all variations but couldn't PuBu their way out of a Shaolin Monestry 

[Rik]

I concur with Olivaa, plenty of my girls can side split in all variations but couldn't PuBu their way out of a Shaolin Monestry 

That's like saying "plenty of my girls can catch well in Little League, but they couldn't bat their way through the World Series"

 

Also, what am I, American now?

[Craig]

Liv,

 

You'll have to show me next time we see each other! I'd be interested in working out what the limiting factor is.  For me there is some really interesting deep hip restrictions that I can feel but can't quite overcome yet.  Are you able to do side splits with the feet pointing forward rather than up?

 

MH

[SDowd]

Very interesting!

 

I've done middle splits with feet flat (not the prettiest, but see below) but Pu Bu feels like a different challenging for me. It seems like ankle mobility (dorsiflexion specifically) is more involved in good Pu Bu?

 

 

[DBC]

Hey, just grabbed the videos and have read through this thread, Emmet's head to toe thread, and the Stretching Chinese Style and had a few questions:

1. Rest Periods - Let's say I do forward pike pulses.  How long should I wait before doing my next set of pike pulses?  I know I can pair it immediately with an unrelated stretch without waiting, or alternate legs in elevated leg or Pu Bu without waiting, but what's the minimum I should wait between two of the same stretch?
    
2. Deload - I noticed Kit is doing a 45 day challenge without planned days off.  Is a "deload" week ever recommended every X amount of weeks?
    
3. Maintenance - Let's say life gets crazy busy.  What's the minimum amount of Sets X Reps that could be used to maintain what I already have?  Could loaded stretches (e.g. straddle splits) be used for this?
    
4. Elevated Leg Pulse Form - I noticed in the video Craig turns his supporting foot out like a side kick, and bends sort of sideways to the stretching leg.  I prefer to basically do an elevated leg pike stretch (both legs facing forward, hips and shoulders squared) with posterior pelvic tilt, to focus on the hamstring and spare the back a bit for true pike work.  In what ways would you guess the video method is better/preferential?

I realize most of this is subjective and I'll need to pay attention to how my body is reacting, but I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts and exeperiences.

[Nathan]

Hey DBC,

 

I'm no expert, so take my words with a grain of salt.

 

I'd guess that rest periods are totally up to you and your tolerance. I basically just like to shake things out a bit and bend at the joints and then I'll move right into the next set. As far as deloads, I think this is also very personal. It's the same with lifting deloads, really. If you have intelligent programming and recovery dialed in, then a deload is rarely actually needed. Your body will tell you if you need a deload - if you listen carefully enough, you can pull back before it has to get more forceful with its messages

 

Regarding maintenance, it's my understanding that one of the advantages of ballistics is that the results tend to stick much better once you've truly attained it. That said, I think the goal with all flexibility should be to maintain it by using the ROM in activity, rather than by just reaching it in your stretching. If you can't think of a way to use the ROM you're aiming for in activity, then why are you trying to attain it anyway?

 

As for your last question, they are simply two different stretches. Your elevated pike stretch is perfectly fine and neither is better nor worse - simply different goal points.

 

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[Frederik]

Nathan has already given a good answer, go I will just add a few point. It is the nature of a challenge or an experiment that you do not know beforehand exactly what the results will be, why else do an challenge if not to gain new insight?

 

Whether you are doing ballistic stretching, or any other activity, exact answers usually does a dis-service to the person asking them because, well ... it depends!

 

For what it is worth, I do not do exact rest periods between my sets, rather I take a break for as long as is needed to be ready for another set. That rest period can be almost nothing if the previous exercise was not very challenging or it can be rather protracted if I have been working hard. 

 

Maintenance, as Nathan says, try to utilize it (use it or loose it) - if you loose it, it will be much easier to get back than the first time around, and the nature of any training is that you cannot train all things all the time, that is just a recipe for over training. I can see a place for doing a round of one set of ballistics as part of a warm up, that should maintain you ROM, this would take place before either some movement practice, a stretching session or just as a morning ritual.

[Craig]

What Nathan said.

RE: deloads, generally every 4th week is a nice spot to put a deload if you aren't sure.  This is usually just the same exercises done with less intensity (either less reps or a lighter load).  Some people do 30 - 45 day challenges, and then generally stop that practice entirely (so a massive deload after a longer period) afterwards.  These are just general guides that have come about by other people experimenting to see what yields the best results for them or their students, as Nathan mentioned, better to pay attention to what gives *you* the most favourable outcome, which will require more time and tinkering.  The tinkering approach in general is always slower as far as objective achievement of skill, but yields other benefits in terms of capacity to learn and listen to your body (somewhat subjective skills).

[DBC]

I'd guess that rest periods are totally up to you and your tolerance. I basically just like to shake things out a bit and bend at the joints and then I'll move right into the next set. As far as deloads, I think this is also very personal. It's the same with lifting deloads, really. If you have intelligent programming and recovery dialed in, then a deload is rarely actually needed. Your body will tell you if you need a deload - if you listen carefully enough, you can pull back before it has to get more forceful with its messages

 

Regarding maintenance, it's my understanding that one of the advantages of ballistics is that the results tend to stick much better once you've truly attained it. That said, I think the goal with all flexibility should be to maintain it by using the ROM in activity, rather than by just reaching it in your stretching. If you can't think of a way to use the ROM you're aiming for in activity, then why are you trying to attain it anyway?

...why else do an challenge if not to gain new insight?

 

Whether you are doing ballistic stretching, or any other activity, exact answers usually does a dis-service to the person asking them because, well ... it depends!

 

For what it is worth, I do not do exact rest periods between my sets, rather I take a break for as long as is needed to be ready for another set. That rest period can be almost nothing if the previous exercise was not very challenging or it can be rather protracted if I have been working hard. 

 

Maintenance, as Nathan says, try to utilize it (use it or loose it) - if you loose it, it will be much easier to get back than the first time around, and the nature of any training is that you cannot train all things all the time, that is just a recipe for over training. I can see a place for doing a round of one set of ballistics as part of a warm up, that should maintain you ROM, this would take place before either some movement practice, a stretching session or just as a morning ritual.

 

I know all stretching is extremely exploratory and subjective, I'm being a little cautious with Ballistics given their old reputation, so your guys' insight is still very helpful.  I'll continue experimenting with rest times.  Regarding "use it or lose it", I'm trying to gain ROM for skills I can't accomplish yet, and can anticipate times when I don't have time for a full routine.  One round, minimum, makes sense and was going to be my starting point.

 

 

What Nathan said.

RE: deloads, generally every 4th week is a nice spot to put a deload if you aren't sure.  This is usually just the same exercises done with less intensity (either less reps or a lighter load).  Some people do 30 - 45 day challenges, and then generally stop that practice entirely (so a massive deload after a longer period) afterwards. 

 

Every 4th week seems like a good idea, and aligns with my strength training as well.  For simplicity I'll start there.

[Nathan]

Regarding "use it or lose it", I'm trying to gain ROM for skills I can't accomplish yet, and can anticipate times when I don't have time for a full routine.  One round, minimum, makes sense and was going to be my starting point.

 

Hey DBC,

 

Rather than thinking of ROM in terms of the end-goal, I meant just take advantage of what you've developed. I took a day off from ballistics for the first time since starting yesterday because I had a long day out on very little sleep the night before and anticipated being slightly dehydrated. So instead I just did some more relaxing isometric pike stretches a couple of times during the day. As another example of "using it," I often notice that when I bend down to pick things up off of the floor I bend at the knees and squat down if I am not thinking about it, so I intentionally keep my knees straight at least every now and then to use pike flexibility.

 

That said, Frederik's suggestion is a great backup that works well for all kinds of "skills" that you acquire. Always training everything is unrealistic, so performing those skills briefly as a warmup or on off-days is a great way to maintain them.

 

Again, good luck and let us know how it goes!

[Craig]

Yes, integrating into daily life is very important across all the skills.  When we are able to change (break) our habitual patterns is when the real magic happens for me.  Noticing that my pelvis habitually rarely moved when I forward bend and it was all coming from my (very flexible and strong) back was something I discovered during ballistic stretching.  Being alerted to the sensation of the pelvis rolling forward during a forward bend has helped me use this in daily movements.  Bending over with a healthier relationship between pelvic and lower back movement now, feels great, get to experience end ROM of posterior chain regularly throughout the day. Tying shoelaces with a straight leg is a fun benefit!

[DBC]

We're all on the same page then.  I make active effort to pick things up by bending at the hip, and if I have to squat, I try to do it flat footed.  Which always reminds me how much further I have to go until I'm comfortable doing those things cold.

 

Nathan and Frederik - I'm finding just how unrealistic it is to try to train everything as well as finding time for exploration.

[BodylineHealth]

Hi Craig,

 

Thanks for including this type of work. I'm really enjoying the ever evolving nature of ST, particularly this functional style of stretch.

 

My class is going to LOVE this tomorrow night

 

Hol x

[Craig]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!!!

 

I am going to be leaving Vimeo due to complications that have arisen with their service and shifting to a new (better) platform. 

 

If you have purchased my programs already please make sure you download a copy to keep.  There is a download button on every video. You will have to re-purchase them on the new platform if you do not! Vimeo will remain online until New Years Day.

 

I will post some more details of the new service when I know them myself.

 

Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

Cheers,

Craig

[bl_]

Hey Craig

There are a lot of comments in different threads about nobody ever actually seing an injury caused by ballistic stretching. 

I started doing the ballistic stretching in your follow-along-video a couple of weeks ago. After a week I was almost at the end of my third pancake set, when I heard something tear in the area where the thigh meets the groin. My girlfriend actually heard it from about two meters away, she said it was a ripping noise, not a pop. 

After this I haven't been able to do the pancake pulses. After two weeks I can sit with my legs straddled and my back straight, but I cannot go forward from there (before the injury I could bend forward to about 45 degrees, I think). 

I can still do the pike/head-to-toe-progression stuff, and also the diamond stretch in the video. But no straight-legged straddle stuff, i.e. the standing leg lifts and pu bu and pancake - there is stiffness and immediate "don't go further"-type pain in the injured spot if I try. 

Any thoughts/advice?

B

[Craig]

9 hours ago, bl_ said:

 

Any thoughts/advice?

B

Hi B,

Sorry to hear about your injury.  It's really hard to offer any kind of accurate advice because I don't know you and your situation and your history and so on.  The context is absolutely important for this kind of thing so please take the following with a grain of salt - it's very general advice and I can't say that if it is the right direction or not but hopefully it gives you some inspiration to explore in a way that will helpful for you.

The immediate "don't go further" response should be listened to in my opinion.  Don't go further  With rehab I basically treat it the same as any progression, although the damaged tissue has to be treated much like a "before the beginning" beginner to restore it.  In other words we want to be really gentle with it, the same as if we were working with elderly or some such. I also advise people to not take risks and push into things they aren't 100% certain of.  This way may take a little longer, but if you re-injure the troubled spot it's going to be worse than the first time and take even longer then to restore. 

On to the restoration.  Progressions I use (with anything) are static holds > slow gentle movements > faster less gentle movements > pulsing > explosive ballistics. The idea being if you can't safely hold it, you're probably going to have trouble moving through and around it safely, if you can't move slowly you're going to have trouble moving quickly and so on. You can also train these in a somewhat overlapping fashion, for example doing static holds one day and slow movements the next, or even both in the same session but slow movements dialed back away from the injury.

An example of an approach like this would be to do a standing straddle, and hinge at the hips so you start doing a standing pancake, stopping the hinge just a little before the nope feeling comes into the body. It will be pretty easy for you as this range will probably be strong.  Do 30s holds here, inching your way session by session closer to the area giving the nope signal but never going into it.  

We could then also do a seated pancake sitting upright like you said and do pelvic circles, making the circle only big enough so that when it passes the affected area it comes near it but does not go into it.  Again this will be super easy for the rest of the circle made with the pelvis but should come close to the affected area without crossing the line so to speak. 

The idea with both exercises is to kind of massage the threshold line further and further away, reminding the body of the strength that it once had. The key (I think) to successful quick massage is to come as close to this threshold as possible without crossing it.  The more you can do holds as close to the edges of it and have circles basically brushing this threshold, the faster it will heal.  The problem here is that it takes keen awareness and control to do this, and therefore a large measure of skill because passing the threshold and messing it up will basically result in re-injury. The other problem is that most people don't have the patience and the dedication to keep up the volume necessary for long enough time to complete the restoration. We want reasonably high volume of these super easy gentle circles and holds, and we also want to respect the threshold - it will move, some days you can go deeper without passing it and others not so deep. 

Variation is also key to any kind of "life building" methods in my opinion.  So basically we need to explore in a way that lets us find as many movements as we can that have these thresholds that give us the "nope nope nope" response.  These movements are the gold, because they are where the faults are, they are the part that need to be restored.  We find the movement that makes us go nope, then we back it way off to a much easier variation and start massaging with gentle movements and holds, keeping the distance  from the threshold you feel is safe enough to massage in without crossing. Sometimes we also might not know that a threshold is in a particular movement, so we must only explore with movements that we can completely control and move gently enough that we can spot the threshold before crossing it. 

We must keep up this variety of gentle movements and holds until we have massaged the thresholds away.  Once the thresholds are gone, we are not done.  The tissue will still be somewhat weak, so we must also begin to strengthen the area by slowly loading the holds and the movements, and beginning to reintroduce pulses and eventually explosive ballistics. 

As for other movements, we must test many things. Sometimes a movement feels OK at the time but then after you realise something has gone wrong.  This makes the whole process very difficult to give "yes you should do this and no you shouldn't do this" answers to.  In my opinion the best thing you can do is take the responsibility into your own hands, it is after all your body and only you know what it's feeling.  By all means seek out therapists and experts but the issue is more than half of the professionals don't know what they are doing, so you need to know how to find the good ones.  To do this you need to have a good idea of your own system and the responses to see if they are aware of them and dealing with them or just absent mindedly prodding things and giving you random exercises. 

Finally, the restoration process will teach you so much about yourself, it's really quite an opportunity to have an injury like this that is not so serious that you can test things out and see what's effective for you and what isn't.   After all, everything I just said I say because it works for me and the people I train, but it may not work for you or I might just be talking garbage.  It's the internet after all and I'm really just a stranger.

I hope this helps a little and that you restore your pancake smoothly! 

Cheers,
Craig