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Gymnastic Bodies stretching program; read Olivia's pinned post


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"Stretching for all!"

(Crowd boos)

"Very well. No stretching at all!"

(Crowd boos)

"Hmmm..different types of stretching for some, miniature national flags for others!"

(Crowd cheers and waves tiny flags)

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The biggest plus it has is a specified protocol of "hold this stretch for 90 seconds" or "do 10 reps". At the same time, the specified protocol is also its biggest weakness since it "forces" you to do spend too much time on stretches that aren't helping your particular weaknesses

This sums is up well. I just did the backbend series and while I really enjoyed the structuredness of the program, I felt like I was wasting my time on some exercises. I'm glad to see how to program a bit more and now I'll gladly return to Kit's material.

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Each exercise/stretch has a prescribed hold time or rep count. The follow-along session is just going through all the exercises in sequence as prescribed. Out of respect for Sommer, his IP, and the license agreement, I don't want to go into any more detail of his programming.

While I have great respect for IP and think people need to rewarded and recognized for innovation.....

Scott Sonnon did not invent wrist circles

Ido Portal did not invent crawling

And Sommer did not invent touching your toes or hollow body hold or...

People need to stop fighting over this crap...and focus on their ability to coach and teach and change people's lives.

People will flock to learn from the best teachers.

And as teachers...once you teach it to someone...it is gone..it is their information to share...it is now their knowledge...no longer just yours!

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Ido Portal did not invent crawling

And as teachers...once you teach it to someone...it is gone..it is their information to share...it is now their knowledge...no longer just yours!

That's not the way he tells it ;)

Also on the GB stretch note. I've had a look at the program and its shockingly bad, I say that partially due to the fact the amount of shit talking Sommer has been doing on his forum re: Kit's programs. Its a situation of comparing grape juice to fine red wine

Its literally the exact same order as pretty much every splits and bridge stretching program I've had off a gymnastics coach. I do agree having a set program can be a nice thing when starting out.

I think if they gather the already existing IM's from foundation and handstand 1/2 and just programmed them better they'd have a far superior program.

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Emmet, I think you are absolutely right.

As a coach he is walking nervously around and looking on his stop warch every few seconds. it looks like he makes the three students nervous with his comments.

the information he gives about alignment is worse or about cero.

i practice ashtanga yoga in style of richard freeman.

there are so much subtile alignment cues to work with.

i tried all of the three courses, will pick some exercises from but wont get through them at once anymore.

sascha

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the information he gives about alignment is worse or about cero.

Yes, I felt that way too. Very little commentary about alignment cues. The videos are a bit awkward with him just standing there, mostly quiet, while the three people stretch.

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...the fact the amount of shit talking Sommer has been doing on his forum re: Kit's programs...

I read the GB forums a fair bit and I haven't seen an amount of shit talking about Kit's programs. Just felt I ought to say that in case Kit felt aggrieved by your comment.

Apologies if you think I am wrong, but if so - please let me know the posts you are talking about so I can stand corrected. :)

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I say that partially due to the fact the amount of shit talking Sommer has been doing on his forum re: Kit's programs.

I haven't seen any of this either, usually any mention of Kit is redacted immediately (I honestly wonder if they have set up some kind of censoring script on the forum).

Is it all in the private stretching sub forum maybe?

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AFAIK Coach Sommer rigorously edits every comment referring to coaches/teachers whose methods overlap with his own products, and he is keen to point out that people like Ido learned from him but I don't think I ever saw 'shit talking'. He's just really going over the top in trying to keep people from checking out other programs.

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It was on Reddit and I can't find it now but Joshua Naterman (hope I got that right) made a good point about one reason to keep the "air clear" on the GB forums from other courses, etc was to limit confusion. There's a lot to take in already and it's by no mean perfect but having the "this is how we do things round here" line for when people disagree about form or reps does at least keep things simple.

Regarding the S courses, I have all 3. I also have all of Kit's material and will continue to buy everything that Kit releases (how can you not at those prices!) because I think his products are top quality and really help people, especially those who very poor flexibility.

But, I have to say the S courses are great for me. The "do this and now this" nature of the follow along class has me engaged for a solid 45 minutes and makes me do things that I have never even attempted on my own. I've been and to scale where needed and already I'm seeing progress. Everyone thinks they're expensive but compared to a lot of fitness things they aren't and if they work then they'll have been worth the price.

Just my £0.02.

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I got one of the GB Stretch courses because I was curious and I don't think it's bad at all. The way it's structured you can't compare it to Kit's work, really. The GB courses are workouts that take you through a prescribed number of reps for a series of specific exercises and 'get the work done'. Whereas Kit's work has a holistic, mindful nature and lends itself much more to an exploratory, highly individualized approach.

IMO, the two approaches can complement each other beautifully. It's just a pity that Coach Sommer has adopted this overly agressive marketing strategy.

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Kit's method is amazing, so is Coach Sommers and both of their products have their pros and cons. what I think we should distinguish is how we feel about the possibility of Coach and Kit having worked on the Stretch series together and what in reality happened for whichever reason they decided to split. what happened between Coach and Kit is none of our business and despite this fact, both have made comments on them not working together and why it didn't work out isn't really important unless you're part of the inner circle of program design and that shouldn't affect us as practitioners. we are not "Stretch Army" or "GB Army", we are practitioners of their methods. since they've both given their thoughts on the matter, I just don't think WE should be discussing this in Kit's place of business. it detracts from discussing material and also sends a weird message to someone new to the forum, what we say/feel about the matter is going to be blown out of proportion and who knows if we're adding fuel to a fire behind the scenes.

I have both of these excellent coaches to thank for my current health, especially my shoulder. what happened between them is between them. it only becomes our problem if each individual coach so much as even hints at our not using the products for ego problems. promoting it is an entirely different matter because this is after all, their space in the internet and where they do business.

we should look to each coaches strengths and really, be empathetic about the shortcomings. use whats useful and literally, just dump the rest by the way side. :)

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It was on Reddit and I can't find it now but Joshua Naterman (hope I got that right) made a good point about one reason to keep the "air clear" on the GB forums from other courses, etc was to limit confusion. There's a lot to take in already and it's by no mean perfect but having the "this is how we do things round here" line for when people disagree about form or reps does at least keep things simple.

It's ironic that Josh is now not welcome on GB anymore because he started to disagree with 'how they do things'.

In my view you can have two systems, you can be have a system open to interpretation with no absolute answers, or a rigidly defined system that professes to have singular, strictly defined goals. If you choose the latter, you must have absolute consistency. The GB system claims to have such goals, but it's rife with inconsistency and this is a critically important shortcoming.

we are not "Stretch Army" or "GB Army", we are practitioners of their methods.

what we say/feel about the matter is going to be blown out of proportion and who knows if we're adding fuel to a fire behind the scenes.

I absolutely agree that we shouldn't identify ourselves as strictly a student of a particular system. But the problem is that it's GB that draws these lines in the sand. When you try to seek totalitarian control over your system, you push people together who want to express reasonable concerns to the fringes, and people will inevitably congregate in places where they can speak freely.

The discourse should be kept civil and reasonable, demonizing a program or person is reductionist and counterproductive. But there should always been room for criticism, to embrace a program's strengths and ignore it's flaws encourages blind adherence. In my view, this kind of tunnel vision is the default state of the mind and it must be rallied against at all times. It's the very notion that we can't criticize and support something simultaneously that divides people into distinct camps of thought.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Apparently, every post I had made, and any references to my work (and this is also true of Yuri's posts) have been deleted. This is no problem for me, honestly. Everyone in our world can use the internet these days, so anyone can find whomever they want to work with. This is the true internet democracy.

And everyone here: feel free to say what you really think and feel: it is only by doing this that Miss O and I can react and respond. For example, consider the follow-along classes: they grew out of this conversation here.

And as soon as our studio is finished, we will be recording follow-along classes that have all the big themes: Pike, Squat, Full Back-Bend, Pancake, Shoulder Flexibility, and many, many more. If everyone could head over to the http://kitlaughlin.c...ou-want-to-see/ thread and help us decide the priority of what to shoot, that will be great.

We welcome criticism here, and we use it. We are not only open to this, we regard it as essential, for many reasons. I will blog on this some time in the future, but the mind's movement to discriminating between objects, schools, everything (no, deeper: dividing the world into the half you like and the half you don't want) is THE root of the world's problems. We (the people comprising ST) are interested in the pursuit of excellence. We will borrow from any system that looks like it might assist that goal, and with attribution, if that's the right thing to do.

In the meantime, I apply the 50 year test: “Who will give a #$%* in 50 years? So far no decision I have had to make about anything has passed this test! So, I fall back on making decisions on the basis of a very simply rule: what action provides the greatest benefits for all involved?

So, as a result, we are trying to share everything we know at the lowest possible cost that still allows the machine to function (mortgages, food, etc!).

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Kit,

I mentioned this in email to miss O, but I believe that the "follow along" class format is actually the more powerful of the formats that we've been playing with, and it is especially useful to do it as a real class (rather than speaking to an imaginary audience on the other side of the camera). It basically allows you to attend the class, hear the other student's questions, and follow along as if you were there. Obviously not as good as being there in person and getting corrections and being able to ask questions, but it's the next best thing! It also allows people to get a feel for programming and when/where to use the cues.

What does everyone else think?

MH

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And as soon as our studio is finished, we will be recording follow-along classes that have all the big themes: Pike, Squat, Full Back-Bend, Pancake, Shoulder Flexibility, and many, many more. If everyone could head over to the http://kitlaughlin.c...ou-want-to-see/ thread and help us decide the priority of what to shoot, that will be great.

If a follow-along for Squat and Shoulder mobility are on the horizon, that will provide more than enough material for both myself and my partner for now, as they are (by happy coincidence for us both) our areas of most need. I suspect the same would be true for many.

As for instructional vs follow-along - I like both. Particularly at the improbably low price point at which these materials are being offered, I like being able to see the movements from both perspectives. Almost like theory (instruction) and practise (follow-along).

That said... I've obtained everything that has thus far been made available, and have made use of very little of it. So much to do, so little time; says he with the just-turned-4-month-old son. Speaking of which... there is another class idea... how to integrate daily movement into a life that is already full of everything else!

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