What are corset protocols?

[Geotrismegistos]

In case someone doesnt know it, here is the 45 day wushu protocol, which i found somewhere on the net:

Test:

-5 minute horse stance with broomstick on thighs

-Elbow to opposite flexed foot of straight leg while standing standing

-Supine raising leg to 90 degrees

Then you receive the 45 day wushu protocol which is:

-Horse stance 5 minutes

-Standing with one leg elevated, 400 ballistic pulses each leg during the day, head down and forward to foot

-The same with leg to the side, and side bend

[Keilani Gutierrez]

interesting.

[Sascha Faltinger]

thank you for the infos about the wushu protocol... :-)

[Emmet Louis]

In case someone doesnt know it, here is the 45 day wushu protocol, which i found somewhere on the net:

Test:

-5 minute horse stance with broomstick on thighs

-Elbow to opposite flexed foot of straight leg while standing standing

-Supine raising leg to 90 degrees

Then you receive the 45 day wushu protocol which is:

-Horse stance 5 minutes

-Standing with one leg elevated, 400 ballistic pulses each leg during the day, head down and forward to foot

-The same with leg to the side, and side bend

you forgot after the pulses hold horse stance 5mins

[Kit_L]

This is a very interesting subject to me (of course); MH here has an immense about of practical training in a similar system. I hope he chimes in here and tells us what this is. My reason for mentioning this is that he and his training partner ("Bendy Dave") trained seriously on the same protocol for about nine years together, but MH did not get the same results as Bendy Dave (who has outstanding hip/leg flexibility, and who only used the Wu Shu-like system). It was not until MH started with us that his flexibility started to take off—and now he can really feel the same Wu Shu-like exercises in his body, and he can feel that they NOW are working for him—but that unlocking was needed first.

Lesson? There are many roads to Rome; all will be needed to be tried—and when you find the one that leads you there, keep going on it. But don't be surprised to find that, at some point, you need to find a new road—this is one of the ways some bodies need to work, it seems. Mine is like that. Bodies like Bendy Dave's have responded to the one system, but until you try to get to the same positions yourself (with whatever system you are using) you will not know if it will work for you. Constant experimentation is required IF the road you are on is not leading you to where you want to go.

​When Miss O and I get settled here in the new place (and it will not be finished for months), then we will film "Pre-exhaustion stretching"; this is the system she invented with Dr Joe Hope, and which changed her ankle-calf flexibility permanently.

[Craig]

Yep, I trained with a traditional chinese martial arts teacher for about a decade. Looking back, there were a couple of factors that prevented me from making extreme progress like Bendy Dave made:

1) my starting point was much much much worse than Dave. I couldn't get my hands past my knees, and my pelvis was (and still is to a large extent) totally locked in place.

2) As kit always says, the body is a master of cheating. I spent many years in the stances avoiding going into the movements with correct pelvic positioning, using my back flexibility to hide my inability to articulate the pelvis properly.

3) I didn't actually do the things my coach told me to do. This is probably the big one...the chinese systems rely on high volume. I was regularly told to "just do two hours of kicks every day" which would have fixed all my problems, i simply didn't do it. Keep in mind it is expected in these systems that you are doing 4 - 6 hours of training every day, so 2 hours of kicks for a few months isn't really a big deal.

I am heading to Ido's corset protocol workshop this weekend along with DW, bendy Dave and a few other auspicious characters, will report back after. As best I can tell, his method is based heavily on the Chinese system, including the reliance on volume, mixed with loaded stretching that most have a handle on here already.

Something like:

- Wrist protection that is very similar to the Gymnastic Bodies wrist prep protocol

- elbow and shoulder protection similar to Yuri's band sequences and all of the various dislocates using a weighted bar, and high volume hanging

- mis aligned squats that are pretty similar to GB's SLS prep

- lots of bridge variations, twisting in and out in various ways

- lots of loaded stretches for the lower and upper body. Things I have seen include standing side splits holding heavy kettle bells, tailor's pose with weights on the knees, the diagonal stretch held for large volumes every day, etc etc.

- high volumes of ballistic stretching

It's all reasonably self explanatory, and if you were to do this for 2 hours every day for 6 months straight, i imagine your flexibility and strength would be close to perfect much like Ido's students. Of course they are only the students advertised, I've met plenty of Ido's students who didn't get those results, more than likely because they simply haven't put the effort or required volume in. It's a big commitment!

[Joshvogel]

In case someone doesnt know it, here is the 45 day wushu protocol, which i found somewhere on the net:

Test:

-5 minute horse stance with broomstick on thighs

-Elbow to opposite flexed foot of straight leg while standing standing

-Supine raising leg to 90 degrees

Then you receive the 45 day wushu protocol which is:

-Horse stance 5 minutes

-Standing with one leg elevated, 400 ballistic pulses each leg during the day, head down and forward to foot

-The same with leg to the side, and side bend

Awesome, I was curious about this, thanks! You mean 400 pulses done over the course of a whole day? (Just to make sure Imm understanding correctly)

[Emmet Louis]

Awesome, I was curious about this, thanks! You mean 400 pulses done over the course of a whole day? (Just to make sure Imm understanding correctly)

We've been trying it over here, was 20 days in when xmass and sickness hit. We're finding 100 reps in the morning then the rest done as one big session to be the optimal.

[Joshvogel]

We've been trying it over here, was 20 days in when xmass and sickness hit. We're finding 100 reps in the morning then the rest done as one big session to be the optimal.

Interesting, thanks! Do you do your horse stance in the morning session or in the later one?

[Emmet Louis]

Interesting, thanks! Do you do your horse stance in the morning session or in the later one?

Time depending I'll do it after the long session or on its own later in the day

[Frederik]

1600 pulses and 10 minutes of horse stance if I understand this correctly, for 45 days ... that has to be experienced at some point!

Edit: Also, thank you very much, thrice-greatest.

[Matthieu Jeandel]

​When Miss O and I get settled here in the new place (and it will not be finished for months), then we will film "Pre-exhaustion stretching"; this is the system she invented with Dr Joe Hope, and which changed her ankle-calf flexibility permanently.

Ah :-) Do you have an idea when we can discover about this? Do you plan to show us different muscle / areas with method?

Thank you for your work.

Matt.

[Joshvogel]

Time depending I'll do it after the long session or on its own later in the day

Gotcha. I've been doing horse stance a bit lately but not with such high rep ballistics. Looking forward to seeing the effects

[Joshvogel]

1600 pulses and 10 minutes of horse stance if I understand this correctly, for 45 days ... that has to be experienced at some point!

Edit: Also, thank you very much, thrice-greatest.

I thought it was 400 pulses and 5 minute horse?

[Frederik]

Well it is not super clear from the above posts, which is partly why I posted.

400 each leg forward = 400 x 2 = 800. pulses forward

400 each leg sideways = 400 x 2 = 800 pulses sideways

800 + 800 = 1600 pulses /day

From Emmets post he is talking about after the holding the horse stance after the pulses also.

I take the above to mean this:

Pulses fwd 400/400

Pulses side 400/400

Horse stance 5min

EDIT: it is probably "only" 5 minutes of horse stance a day.

[Tibetanac]

Off the topic L1 sumo squat from squat mastery series is same as horse stance but Thomas K states in his book that pelvic should be anterior tilted while Kit states otherwise why is that? And it same goes for side splits can someone explain this to me ? I always thought that my pelvic should be anterior tilted in those positions while Kit stated " tuck the tail ". http://www.usadojo.c...e2/splitabc.jpg this pic is from Thomas K book.

[Frederik]

Because they are not the same? Different exercises, different goals, different effect.

Also notice that Kits feet are slightly externally rotated, whereas a horse stance has feet pointing forward. To avoid pinching/ impingement with the legs abducted there should either be external rotation of the legs OR anterior pelvic tilt.

[Craig]

My feeling is that developing the standing side splits (w/ feet flat and a full tail tuck, i.e. full posterior pelvic tilt) and developing the pancake (same position but with full anterior pelvic tilt) should unlock everything in between. Keeping the legs internally rotated with the posterior tilt (i.e. standing split with feet flat on the ground rather than toes pointed up) also adds an interesting dimension to the deep front line, a line of tightness I have never seen released on anyone except my martial arts teacher and a few notable others. As kit regularly points out, once you externally rotate the legs and point the toes up, it always allows you to go deeper. Perhaps developing both at the same time is prudent, and my guess is that developing the flat feet version with tail tuck will always guarantee the other position, but not vice versa.

[Frederik]

Interesting concept Craig, one reflection/ question - do you think it is possible that the hip structure of some people will not allow this?

[Tibetanac]

aha thanks, will try both see what works for me.

[Geotrismegistos]

My feeling is that developing the standing side splits (w/ feet flat and a full tail tuck, i.e. full posterior pelvic tilt) and developing the pancake (same position but with full anterior pelvic tilt) should unlock everything in between. Keeping the legs internally rotated with the posterior tilt (i.e. standing split with feet flat on the ground rather than toes pointed up) also adds an interesting dimension to the deep front line, a line of tightness I have never seen released on anyone except my martial arts teacher and a few notable others. As kit regularly points out, once you externally rotate the legs and point the toes up, it always allows you to go deeper. Perhaps developing both at the same time is prudent, and my guess is that developing the flat feet version with tail tuck will always guarantee the other position, but not vice versa.

Tom Kurz said that if you do the standing side splits with feel flat, you will instantly get at the same time the sitting down side splits with feet pointing up AND the front split (the one with the back foot pointing to the side, not the one that involves hip flexors) without working on them.

It doesnt work the other way around.

So i consider it the most bang for buck and im working towards it.

[Craig]

Interesting concept Craig, one reflection/ question - do you think it is possible that the hip structure of some people will not allow this?

Possibly, but I wouldn't entertain this notion simply because more than likely there are very few people that have actually hit this limit, and it will stop people actually making the attempt. My feeling is that this limit would be something like a few inches off side splits vs an oversplit.

Geo: Great profile pic! How deep can you go with the back flat and vertical?

For others who are unsure of what I mean, I just took a few photos of me doing this. In both photos:

- I am wearing socks and the surface is slippery, so I have to exert strength at the end ROM to hold myself up.

- I am holding a 10kg dumbbell (although you cant see it, it's in my hands between my legs).

- Both photos were taken just now without a warm up (nor have I done anything today except for a few front levers - slack day! doh)

In the first photo:

- My tail is tucked as best as I can, resulting in me not being as deep as the second photo by a fair few inches

In the second photo:

- I let my tail relax and it shifted to the easiest position for me, immediately allowing me to go deeper.

[Adurst]

I find this interesting as...without training I can easily do a five minute horse-stance...although I don't have uber specific corrections...but how wrong could I get it.

I did a 3 minute one today with a 25kg barbell in the hip crease. And ejected rather then failed.

I wonder if it was all the skiing I did as s child, plus all the wall squats we did in practice.

Squatting mid-range while experiencing significant dynamic load is what I did every winter for 20+ years, for days at a time.

I think I'm going to ignor the horse stance...I'm pretty sure with grit and determination...maybe competition I could make 10 minutes.

I self eject from this move more out of prolonged mild discomfort and no reward/better things/funner things to do.

That said...I give them to my class every 3-4 weeks and see 2*1min is more then most can handle. In the class I usdually do 4 min myself as group is split in two and does 2 rounds of 1 min on and 1 min of a boxing combo.

[Craig]

Oh I just noticed that my ankles are pronating in these photos a little. I would also urge people to explore trying to keep the arch as high as possible!

[Craig]

Thirsty man if you're interested you can post a photo of your horse stance and I can give you corrections from the perspective of my lineage of martial arts. I have definitely found that small changes can mean the difference between holding it for ages and not being able to hold it at all.