Tibetanac Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I hear this word all the time on Ido portal facebook page, but cant seem to find what that type of stretching is all about?
Emmet Louis Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Its nothing fancy, just a collection of joint mobility exercises and stretching with a catchy name.
captainfleas Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Ido seems to be highly protective over his system and has generated a lot of mixed opinions about his approach. I think he is very inspiring, what I don't get on with his suggestion that he created these ideas. He seems like a very dedicated collector of knowledge. I just wish he was a little more open (but I am also aware of him needing to pay bills).
Tibetanac Posted December 30, 2014 Author Posted December 30, 2014 yes I agree with you captainfleas haha, I wish we could get our hands on more loaded stretching exercises I found a few of Kits that were very helpful for me. Ty Emmet.
Sascha Faltinger Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 maybe we all should collect the loaded stretching exercises we know. maybe we get some more together then an individual knows.
Rik Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Ido seems to be highly protective over his system and has generated a lot of mixed opinions about his approach. I think he is very inspiring, what I don't get on with his suggestion that he created these ideas. He seems like a very dedicated collector of knowledge. I just wish he was a little more open (but I am also aware of him needing to pay bills). Ido's rates are absurd, and his workshops are always packed. He's making more than enough money to "pay the bills" for the next 15 years.
captainfleas Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I felt immediately welcomed by the ST community and excited by the work Kit had built along with his teachers. Ido seems more like a Jesus type who wants you to commit to him and his approach. I feel overwhelmed by Ido's philosophy and 'not worthy'. (These are just thoughts). I have downloaded most of the vimeo content Kit has provided and there are a few loaded stretching ideas there and through experimentation I have tried to make some of my own with a 20kg kettlebell which I might upload if anyone was interested. Pavel Tsatsouline also has made videos which are on youtube with him using weights to stretch but they are quite hardcore.
Emmet Louis Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 yes I agree with you captainfleas haha, I wish we could get our hands on more loaded stretching exercises I found a few of Kits that were very helpful for me. Ty Emmet. All stretching is loaded, its a wrong to think you can stretch with out loading, try stretch an elastic band without applying a force/load to it. All that matters is the degree and vector. Friends of mine here done the corset workshop and were not happy with the content as it was basically just the basics dressed up with fancy names. Nothing wrong with learning the basics from a good teacher but does it need to be dressed up so much.
Keilani Gutierrez Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 that's what i was about to say, emmet. you'd be surprised that most of the wrist/elbow stuff in his advanced programs are wrist stretches that are eventually taken from a "seiza, kneeling" position out to a pushup position. which is what we should be doing anyway! the rest is learning to articulate the spine which is essentially how to flex and extend, rotate, (already included in the daily five) + learning how to articulate the scapula and legs independent from moving the spine. that's from what i've been able to pick up anyway.
Sascha Faltinger Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Passive Loaded Stretch for Pancake: sitting in straddle with a 15-20 kg Plate on my back with open shoulders: I do 4 Sets, each of them 8 reps and hold the last Position of every set for about 45-60 sec train this exercise about 2 times a week. making very good progress. any other ideas for weighted stretches? my bridge sucks because of thoraxic spine/shoulder mobility, how does Ido Portal's Method explain to train for bridge? cheers, sascha
Tibetanac Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 All stretching is loaded, its a wrong to think you can stretch with out loading, try stretch an elastic band without applying a force/load to it. All that matters is the degree and vector. Friends of mine here done the corset workshop and were not happy with the content as it was basically just the basics dressed up with fancy names. Nothing wrong with learning the basics from a good teacher but does it need to be dressed up so much. It sure is loaded but more load makes it a strengthening exercise aswell, if you are a gymnast or martial artist free weights splits will get you nowhere because your muscles wont be capable to hold position of a split while doing a kick. Sascha I also do that and I find it very helpfull for frontsplits I am very good at just with C R method got me there but I was doing it long ago before I heard for Kit. I think I am very young (19) so I am not in a position to talk what is good for all of us because I am still very stretchable. !
Tibetanac Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 And to add yes, I also like ST forum a lot because its free knowledge, not something I need to pay billions for.
Emmet Louis Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 It sure is loaded but more load makes it a strengthening exercise aswell, if you are a gymnast or martial artist free weights splits will get you nowhere because your muscles wont be capable to hold position of a split while doing a kick. You're describing static active flexibility here which is developed using differing methods than using weights to stretch. Being able to hold a split with 30kg on you will in no way help your ability to lift your leg up other than giving you that range.
Frederik Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 You're describing static active flexibility here which is developed using differing methods than using weights to stretch. Being able to hold a split with 30kg on you will in no way help your ability to lift your leg up other than giving you that range. Emmet is right on the money. A good way to think about this is what muscles or group of muscles that are doing the work. In a side split, you are working on the adductors. In a high sideways kick in martial arts, you can be limited by your adductors (it is more a prerequisite). Most likely moving the leg sideways and up is mostly limited by insufficient strength in the extreme ROM of the TFL and glutes. Another example of static active flexibility from gymnastics: straddle or pike compression (which can be trained both dyanmic and static). These movements give a wholly different sensation from a pike or pancake stretch. It is probably necessary to develop both types concurrently at least for the activities we are talking about. To elaborate on Emmets terminology there is: static passive static active dynamic
Tibetanac Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 I am not talking about static stretching with weights but more of a dynamic movements with weights still they are more like micro movements yet holding a front split between two chairs helped me tremendously with my kicks. And I think that is also a loaded stretching isnt it? http://www.stadion.com/wp-content/uploads/Adrowski-300x157.jpg Something like this except in fronts. Sorry if I am wrong.
Emmet Louis Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I am not talking about static stretching with weights but more of a dynamic movements with weights still they are more like micro movements yet holding a front split between two chairs helped me tremendously with my kicks. And I think that is also a loaded stretching isnt it? http://www.stadion.c...ski-300x157.jpg Something like this except in fronts. Sorry if I am wrong. Basically it passive flexibility which is the master of the other ranges. Using loaded stretchs, pnf, whatever works to increase your passive range giving you more potential to kick higher, the subsequent kicking practice you done trained you to use this range. If you didn't do the kicking drills etc in your practice then you're kick height more than likely wouldn't of improved.
Tibetanac Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 Than can someone explain me why Ido says he is only doing loaded stretching with his students?
Frederik Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Why? I would say that 90% of it is marketing or salesmanship. (as has been said more or less obliquely above). Using the term loaded progressive stretching is a way to create a trademark that is unique to his particular system/technique/method/gnosis. Idos stuff is legit, no question, but you still have use good judgement - and not necessarily take everything at face value. I would say that what probably sets some of Ido and his students apart, and why they are getting good results has alot to do with dedication, a high work ethic and a freakish training volume. If you combine these things with any reasonable training system you are bound to get great results. Also such a method tend to weed out the weak, alot of self-selection is going on here. However one major "insight" from Ido to the general discussion might be the use of particular stretching and mobility exercises on a daily basis (or even two times a day). Mostly at a lower intensity of course. If anything this goes to show that there are no set in stone rules about how often to stretch, experimenting is needed. regards
Adurst Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 I'm interest is in the Corset protocols. Not the Progressive Loaded Stretching. I understand the LPS system and basically use it myself now. As I understand it...corset is more about joint integrity, tendon and ligament development...then it is about gaining flexibility. I also understand that long isometrics are a key element of the system. Such as the 5-10min horse stance. I like Ido am a collector of "good shit" training techniques. And Ido has lots of good stuff...as does ST/Kit, Dr. Spina, Charles Polquin, Ian King, Rafe Kelley, Pavel and Dan John, Scott Sonnon and Chris Sommer and a gazillion other awesome people. "Take what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own." Bruce Lee This is what Ido has done and his system is the result. and what all of us should be doing to create our own path that is adapted to the uniqueness of ones self. This is what Ido, Kit and all great teachers help you do.
Tibetanac Posted January 3, 2015 Author Posted January 3, 2015 So can the progression for knuckle, finger, wrist push up in handstand one series be considered as corset protocols? In monday I will add pancake loaded streching to my schedule and will stick to it because as I understood it is easier basically to measure progression. Yes I agree with you, not everything will work for you as it works for someone else, that is the exact result why I stopped doing foundation series by Chris Sommer. I learned a lot from it - how to integrate gymnastic work into your trainings and not get hurt and than the real training begun. I went from 5 pull ups to 20 and now I am doing oacp work same happened to my static arm strength and if I stayed on that foundaiton series basically I still wouldnt pass arch body rock which I passed easily now.
Adurst Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Yes...that is GB's wrist prep sequence...but there are others...GMB has a wrist one I really like and Systema has heaps...as does wushu.
Emmet Louis Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 I'm interest is in the Corset protocols. Not the Progressive Loaded Stretching. I understand the LPS system and basically use it myself now. As I understand it...corset is more about joint integrity, tendon and ligament development...then it is about gaining flexibility. I also understand that long isometrics are a key element of the system. Such as the 5-10min horse stance. The only place long isometrics feature is in the wushu triple stage test.
Adurst Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 The only place long isometrics feature is in the wushu triple stage test. Ok, thanks for that... Rather then specific exercises...do you see/understand common principles/framework that are used? I'm feeling like I'm starting to really understand the methodology of Dr. Spina in this area. The benefit is that once you understand how/why an exercise provides the adaptation your looking for...then you can easily make up your own. Maybe we should do our own research here and figure it out What adaptations are we looking for specifically and where in the body? I've been doing some of my own...and this has included a large amount of isometrics and controlled eccentrics as the research I've seen suggests these are the best for the adaptations I'm looking for. I have short sequences for most joints...based on things I've created, have been shown to me, read about, YouTube etc. The "I created" categorie are based on either bringing an exercise from one joint to others or modifing excerises/experimentation. And by no means suggests many others aren't already doing and teaching it....just me applying the frameworks I understand.
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