Jay Howard Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Hi Kit, I would like to ask about one problem I am having with even the basics of "Master the Squat." I am not terribly inflexible, in that if I hold onto a chair or a TRX cable, I can get down into a squat in the range of 80% (100% being able to sit on heels). However, the problem is when I do it unassisted, unless I bend my upper body forward quite a bit I tend to topple backwards. In the first video for the program, it talks about staying as upright as possible, and has an on-screen cue that says "lower legs ARE vertical." This is and keeping the upper body as upright as possible are really tough for me, as it means moving my center of balance backwards at which point I start to lose stability. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Hi Kit, I would like to ask about one problem I am having with even the basics of "Master the Squat." I am not terribly inflexible, in that if I hold onto a chair or a TRX cable, I can get down into a squat in the range of 80% (100% being able to sit on heels). However, the problem is when I do it unassisted, unless I bend my upper body forward quite a bit I tend to topple backwards. In the first video for the program, it talks about staying as upright as possible, and has an on-screen cue that says "lower legs ARE vertical." This is and keeping the upper body as upright as possible are really tough for me, as it means moving my center of balance backwards at which point I start to lose stability. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance! This is dependent on your proportions. In order to balance a squat, you need to keep your center of mass over the foot. There are two ways to bring your center of mass forward. The first is to get the knees forward so the entire hip-torso complex is shifted forward, which means you can keep your torso more upright. You can see this in my front squat here. Notice how my knees are way in front of my toes, and my butt is very close to my ankles. My torso is almost completely upright in this case. The center of mass corresponds to the place the bar is in. The second is to hinge from the hips, as you can see here. Note how the lower legs stay almost vertical. His knees are close to his toes, but his butt is way out back, very far from his ankles. A combination of these two needs to happen in order for your squat to balance. You can see this in my back squat here. I'm getting a lot out of pushing my knees forward, but I still have to lean forward from the hips a bit in order to bring the center of mass (the bar) over the foot. This works for me because I have long lower legs. The guy in the low bar squat picture has shorter lower legs in relation to his femur, so he'll have to lean forward more regardless. It is impossible to not do at least one of these things in a squat. In my opinion cueing both of these things at the same time is ill-advised. In an unweighted squat it doesn't matter a whole bunch what you do, so I'd say try to find a happy medium and play around with it once you get better at squatting. I don't recall if this is cued in the video, but shoving your knees out can also make the squat significantly easier by reducing the effective length of your upper leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Howard Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Thanks Phi, let me work with this and see what I come up with! Gracias! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissDanny Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Thanks Phi, let me work with this and see what I come up with! Gracias! Phi's answer is spot on. Typically an "immature squat" will be wider stance, toes more turned out, more forward lean. Ankle, hip and tspine mobility all play a part, and physiology (proportions) and footwear (heel lift) can make a massive difference too. The thing you cant see in the pictures is the amount of posterior chain engagement that goes into a better squat. Try this exercise https://youtu.be/BWV6keJUDeo (thanks Jim), then do a squat trying to maintain this feeling. The exercises you're are doing are good ones as long as you keep tension at the bottom; the weight of a kettlebell in a goblet squat is a great way of enforcing this. Another good routine is sit on a low bench or medicine ball, set up the best bottom of squat position you can muster and practise lifting yourself off your perch and holding and grooving that bottom position, this will teach you to be in a stable equilibrium with your centre of gravity as close as possible to your frontal plane (ie line of balance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Howard Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The thing you cant see in the pictures is the amount of posterior chain engagement that goes into a better squat. Try this exercise https://youtu.be/BWV6keJUDeo (thanks Jim), then do a squat trying to maintain this feeling. The exercises you're are doing are good ones as long as you keep tension at the bottom; the weight of a kettlebell in a goblet squat is a great way of enforcing this. Another good routine is sit on a low bench or medicine ball, set up the best bottom of squat position you can muster and practise lifting yourself off your perch and holding and grooving that bottom position, this will teach you to be in a stable equilibrium with your centre of gravity as close as possible to your frontal plane (ie line of balance) Thanks for the input. First, regarding posterior chain engagement; you're preaching to the choir. I teach Foundation Training here in Taiwan; in fact I am the only certified teacher in Greater China. It has helped me tremendously, prior to Iearning FT I wasn't even close to attempting a squat. Another factor is I tore the PCL in my left knee many decades ago and didn't have it repaired. So there is a bit of a joint issue I am also working with regarding the squat. The tip you mentioned about setting up the best bottom of squat position and then moving up from there makes a lot of sense. Babies are master squatters, but they don't get into the squat from the top down, but rather the bottom up. So that may be a way to work on it. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissDanny Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I teach Foundation Training here in Taiwan; in fact I am the only certified teacher in Greater China. It has helped me tremendously, prior to Iearning FT I wasn't even close to attempting a squat. Babies are master squatters, but they don't get into the squat from the top down, but rather the bottom up. I will have a closer look at the foundation training stuff. Im not a big fan of baby/adult comparisons as regards squatting mechanics... babies have radically diferent proportions and physiology, mental processes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit_L Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Jay, are you over-thinking this whole simple basic exercise? The first program in MTS is the Sumo squat—a stretching/strengthening exercise that stretches the adductors. It is not a model for the back squat. The Sumo squat is explicitly a half squat, and it is designed to open the hips, and is just one of many prep. movements. If you need to bend the upper body forwards in a full squat, a different exercises, your centre of balance is too far back and usually this is because ankles are not flexible enough, as Phi said. All this is covered in detail in the rest of the MTS program. Please work your way through all of it and then ask questions. As well, the goblet squat is a great exercise as SD mentions; I like the 1 1/2 versions: drop into bottom position under tension, holding a tight (lower back slightly extended) shape, and throughout, do not let whatever spine angle (angle between spine and floor) you have chosen change at all. Come up to parallel, go back down, then come up all the way. Count this as one rep. Massive glute activation, for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I like the 1 1/2 versions: drop into bottom position under tension, holding a tight (lower back slightly extended) shape, and throughout, do not let whatever spine angle (angle between spine and floor) you have chosen change at all. Come up to parallel, go back down, then come up all the way. Count this as one rep. Massive glute activation, for most people. Emmet had me do these with a barbell on the back for a couple weeks, culminating in doing 7 sets of 'em. I've never done something so terrible yet so effective. Really taught me how to brace better. I just hope I'll never have to do them again (Emmet being on these forums, that might be petitioning the devil as we like to say in Dutch ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Howard Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Jay, are you over-thinking this whole simple basic exercise? The first program in MTS is the Sumo squat—a stretching/strengthening exercise that stretches the adductors. It is not a model for the back squat. The Sumo squat is explicitly a half squat, and it is designed to open the hips, and is just one of many prep. movements. Hi Kit, Thanks for the reply. I realize the Sumo Squat is a half squat prep movement. All I was trying to say was that when doing the Sumo Squat, I was having balancing issues if I tried to keep my lower legs vertical and the upper body upright. So I guess my question was rather simple - if your knees come forward preventing the lower legs from being vertical and the upper body tends to bend over a bit, is that OK at the beginning stage? Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit_L Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 if your knees come forward preventing the lower legs from being vertical and the upper body tends to bend over a bit, is that OK at the beginning stage? Yes, perfectly fine. As your hips loosen and you can get your knees further apart, achieving that positioning will become easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Howard Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I will have a closer look at the foundation training stuff. FYI - The exercise you directed me to via the YouTube video is one of the key exercises of Foundation Training - the Founder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Howard Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Yes, perfectly fine. As your hips loosen and you can get your knees further apart, achieving that positioning will become easier. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFyah Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Hi everybody! Excited to be here. Sorry my bad english I'm from Spain. Just bought Master the squat and working L1 and E1, I've found that my horse stance is weaker than it should be and my ankle flex is horrible. My squat is decent to me (can stand up to 4 minutes), but feet wider than this squat, i saw it at the trailer and was like wtf hahaha. My flex stats: Can't even touch the ground at standing pike. Can't bridge straight arm. I lack too of the handstand flexibility at my shoulders. I'm 19, 188-190 cm tall, 100 kilo (like to cut to 90), I would like to increase all my moves so here I am! Thank u Kit and everybody! Will be back posting my results over this week of ankle and sumo squat preparation. ... I would like to hear your opinion about training into squatting with the inner border of the feet (like limbo), I'm limbering (correct use of limbering?) it for a week with caution and would like to do this in a future Master shoulder flexibility before full bridge series?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant R Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Hello everybody. I bought this program about 3 weeks ago and have been doing the full thing about every 5-7 days with some of the other exercises (calf, piriformis etc) daily. Initially I had a bunch of questions, but I decided to just keep at it for a few weeks and see if I could resolve the questions myself as I've found that exploration brings further understanding rather than simply being spoon fed possible answers. With that said, I have one question that I simply cannot solve! Whenever I do anything from E4 (anything related to FROG, i.e. squashed frog, diamond frog pose), I do not get a natural feeling of stretch. Rather, the feeling is quite sharp. It feels as though there are bones in the way, or perhaps joints. It just doesn't feel good - like a stretch should...and how I can see it feels for Kit and the others in the video. So my questions are as follows: does anybody know what I am experiencing? Should I just persist with these stretches but take it verrry slowly? Should I desist from these in order to avoid grinding joints? Is there an earlier progression that I should master first? Is there any adjuncts that can help; spikey ball work etc? Some quick info to perhaps make it easier: My resting squat is pretty good. It is very comfortable for me and I don't have pain. Standing pike is pretty bad, can touch the floor but I look very arched and stiff. Seated straddle is horrendous, due to the problem with E4 type exercises, I cannot get my legs very wide at all. Folding forward is near on impossible and just getting into position is a challenge. Thanks for the program, and thanks for the forums - some excellent discussions in here..the threads suggested by Kit are mindblowing actually! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshwinT Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Hello Grant, Seems to me that you have very tight piriformis and adductors. The tight piriformis is causing your pelvis to be tilted backwards. Hence the arched standing pike and difficulties with forward folds. The tight piriformis is what is causing your discomfort in the squashed frog-type exercises. Since the pelvis is tilted backwards, the head of the femur is not positioned correctly in order to spread the legs. So it feels as though your bones are grinding together. Do some work on loosening the piriformis to get your pelvis to tilt forward a bit more and the squashed frog should work better. For the adductors I love all variations of cossack squats and Skandasana. Best of Luck. Ashwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Hi everyone, First post here. Huge fan of Kit's approach and methodology. Recently very much enjoyed his guest spot on the new acro library podcast, those who haven't had a listen - it's well worth it. I bought the Master the Squat series a few weeks ago and have gone through it several times. I have similar problems as Grant above, so will follow the same advice re continued piriformis and abductor stretches. Big challenge for me is the cossack squat, my abductors are massively tight especially on one side, so much so that I can't get down to practice it in earnest. I will continue with the above though, as I think that should slowly help. Someone let me know if this isn't the best approach of if another stretch might lead me better towards improving the cossack squat. I have a question: I would like to ask if it's advisable to move onto other programs (master the back bend) before all the exercises in master the squat are 'mastered' Thank you for reading, and it's a pleasure to be here. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Hi Jeremy, Welcome! All of Kit's podcasts are great. You can find them all in one place on the ST site now, too. 12 hours ago, Jeremy said: Big challenge for me is the cossack squat, my abductors are massively tight especially on one side, so much so that I can't get down to practice it in earnest. Don't think that you have to be able to get down to a certain point before you can practice "in earnest." Wherever your current flexibility allows you to go will be a great place to start. That said, holding on to something (fixed/unmovable) in front of you should most likely allow you to go lower as it will reduce the strength and balance requirements of the position. You could also start with some tailor's pose and squashed frog limbering to loosen up the area first. 12 hours ago, Jeremy said: I have a question: I would like to ask if it's advisable to move onto other programs (master the back bend) before all the exercises in master the squat are 'mastered' Please take a look at the How to use the "Master the ..." programs and Tips from the Mastery Series, by Ashwin Tirodkar threads. They should answer your question along with many others that you will want to ask in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Thanks Nathan, I appreciate the reply. Holding onto something is good advice, which didn't occur to me. I believe I have read through the 'How to use' thread but I'll take another look. Thanks again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 @Jeremy: There is gold in the comments, too! But: Quote Absolutely nothing is set in stone, feel free to experiment with this and butcher this as much as you like. This holds true both intra-program and inter-program. So when asking "what should I do" you need to consider "what do I want to achieve?" Depending on the answer, choose the program(s) that will provide the tools that will help you get there. You can't focus on everything at once, but you can work on numerous other aspects while continuing to address your (current) primary focus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Hello guys, I have been trying to increase flexibility in very tight hip flexors and abductors over the past few weeks, and on one side especially it feels blocked (like structural more than muscular) So today I was trying to release some of this tension with a small textured physio ball (size of tennis ball), and I felt a deep, uncomfortable sort of nerve movement (but not a tearing sensation) and after I got up i noticed that 40% of my thigh is tingly and numb, but with no more pain than usual. Quite alarming when it didn't go away after a few minutes! A quick search revealed possible femoral nerve entrapment...but I've no idea really. I would love to hear some thoughts from people who might have had the same thing happen, though surely this isn't an everyday type of thing. Thanks in advance for any suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit_L Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 Most likely one or more of the surface nerves have ben affected; I had this happen in my own body with a hip flexor stretch once. It came good over the period of about a week, IIRC. Definitely it is not an everyday thing. I doubt that it is femoral nerve entrapment; no ball rolling work will get that deep, I don't think. If you can recall it, where did you feel this nerve movement you mention? Please walk around (Sunday today in HK, no?) and report back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Thanks so much for the reply Kit. I wasn't sure how concerned to be so feel better about it now. Yes, I do recall the position, it was deep in the central upper thigh running top to bottom, near the hip. It was painful when it happened but not too bad, nothing like a muscle tear. It was only after I stood up 5 minutes later that I realised most of my thigh was numb. Had a walk about today. Numbness unchanged. Hip flexor feels more tight today and inflamed so I'm going to lay off exercise for a few days - couldn't do morning tai chi this morning. Planning a sauna later. Hopefully it'll just go back to normal as you described! Really appreciate the feedback and support, so thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTN Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit_L Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 I really like the style of that drawing, Mark; and that's the position I prefer in the bent-leg Cossack over the flat-foot one. I am not sure what your purpose was in posting it, though—would you elaborate? Re. the numbness: walking should be fine, so please continue all movement that is possible and report back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTN Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Thanks Kit. Drawing sometimes helps me understand in ways a photograph doesn't. It's akin to the emphasis you put on "feeling" the sensation of a pose rather than emulating the final shape. In this picture I'll say the names of muscles under stretch as I draw them to make a visual connection (lateral line, reverse grip, triceps, lats, glute medius). I know from your books that you like the documentary honesty of photography for teaching purposes and clarity of communication. I agree. I'm sharing something that helps me understand and express my experience of ST. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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