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I am currently doing two times a week stretching. I found that number 2 really gives me the time to recover my muscles, when I was stretching everyday I found out I was not really improving. I was quite sore in my hammies especially so I backed off a bit and after a week of just limbering I tried my pike it and was really better than week before thats when I removed all day stretches ( I was in illusion, more doing - more improvement, but its not like that in stretching) 2 times a week I find it really good doing either C - R or loaded. Only thing I am doing 3 to five times a week is high bridge and shoulder opener and I see improvement in there. But for my pike or pancake two is a gold number. Funny I realised how much my knowledge improved after this forum. Big thanks to everyone. :)

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A quick question to the community regarding the deep squat - the Master the Squat & Hip Mobility series have been very helpful.

I'm trying to work my way up to 10 minutes in the deep squat position.

My sticking point seems to be:

- When I get 2-3 minutes into position, I get a burning/fatigue sensation at the front of my shins (tib anterior) & that forces me to steadily shift my weight backwards, causing me to fall off-balance and out of the squat. Any thoughts on exactly what this is & the best way to go about getting past it? I'm doing a lot of calf stretching, but am guessing it might be tightness in tib ant and/or ankle that is causing these problems?

- I also generally find it hard to maintain an upright position in the bottom of the squat without tipping over. Thoughts/suggestions to rectify?

-Kyler

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Don't be afraid of assistance such as: wall for support, holding weight/support, heel raise.

-I am a fan of the first sequence from Dewey Nielsen's

video.

-A-frame/bear/down dog walking (lots)

-Duck walks

-All ST for GST stretches. Advanced piriformis, hamstrings, wall wedge squat etc etc

-Kit's foot sequence. Foot, ankle, calf massage, foam rolling.

-Squat for reps, squat jumps, deep negatives to sitting.

Hope that helps, keep working it. Lots can be done.

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Kyler wrote:

... I get a burning/fatigue sensation at the front of my shins (tib anterior) & that forces me to steadily shift my weight backwards, causing me to fall off-balance and out of the squat.

Anterior tibialis is cramping, that's all. Hurts like hell, too, no? One of the things we have learned over the years is tat if you make a muscle work in the contacted end (shortest end) of its ROM, it's liable to cramp.

What this tells you is that you are using these muscles to hold the centre of your mass just forward of your balance point. What this tells you is that there is tension in various tissues that prevent the body from aligning itself this way without effort.

Take all of Andrew's suggestions on; even use a 3mm support under your heels, if you want, and in time this will be a completely comfortable position.

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To Kyler, I had to work for several months with a heel lift in order to be able to hold the bottom squat position for time, to overcome the cramping at the front of the ankles/shin that you mention in your post. The heel lift just got me tipped forward of my balance point enough that I could hold the position. I also worked a bunch on getting movement in the fascia of the lumbar spine (this was via some super intense manual work done by 'The Claw', a.k.a. David Fierro, in Vancouver). Now, I can drop down to full squat, heels flat, and hold as long as I like whenever I want ... awesome!

Cheers

Olivia

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Andrew L - thank you for those insights!

Kit - As usual, appreciate your insight and directness - I thought using a support might be 'cheating', but I can see the logic in it. I will definitely play with that amongst the other suggestions.

Thanks too Olivia - good to know that someone with your awesome stretch skills has once been where I am working out of.

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Cheating is fine—as long as it leads you in the direction you want to go. Use the smallest lift that will allow you to balance, and then do all you can to let the body relax and sink deeper towards the floor. I can attest that Miss O's squat has improved dramatically in the last year—since she started working on it! This is the secret.

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I have a little question which fascinates me and I can't really understand it.

I cannot squat painfree normally after a meniscis surgery which removed some of it, however I realised something. If I do the SLDP and hold the exercise for 1-2 min. and really focused on posterior tilt of the hips so I get a nice hamstring stretch, I can squat painfree afterwards and sit in the bottom of the squat without discomfort, soreness and stinging pain - if this because something in my posterior chain is causing this and I somehow stretch it with the exercise?

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Joachim wrote:

something in my posterior chain is causing this and I somehow stretch it with the exercise?

Unquestionably, yes. Some knee pain (more than people realise) comes from the hamstrings and calf muscles (and the little muscle behind the knee, popliteus) are not soft enough to get our of the way completely in the bottom position. If you look closely at someone who has a good bottom position, the adductors are squeezed out of the way (medially) and calf/hamstrings medially and laterally. I will shoot a video on this some time soon. And, not coincidentally, this observation was the genesis of our RollStretch protocol: when you sit with a stick in between calf and hamstrings, all sorts of good things can happen!

Olivia thinks you mean "anterior tilt": this adds the hamstrings dramatically.

Thanks for reporting this, and for you, SLDP is clearly an important exercise. I love it myself.

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Joachim wrote:

Unquestionably, yes. Some knee pain (more than people realise) comes from the hamstrings and calf muscles (and the little muscle behind the knee, popliteus) are not soft enough to get our of the way completely in the bottom position. If you look closely at someone who has a good bottom position, the adductors are squeezed out of the way (medially) and calf/hamstrings medially and laterally. I will shoot a video on this some time soon. And, not incidentally, this was the genesis if our RollStretch protocol: when you sit with a stick in between calf and hamstrings, all sorts of good things can happen!

Olivia thinks you mean "anterior tilt": this adds the hamstrings dramatically.

Thanks for reporting this, and for you, SLDP is clearly an important exercise. I love it myself.

Thanks Kit. I'm happy it's something I can do something about, I will hit the SLDP hard. Would it be an idea to do it before every set of squats? I'm thinking along the lines of the latest pain science research - If you can "remodel" the brain to learn that a movement isn't dangerous and shouldn't cause pain, then it's a win!

I can sit on my tibia (like the japanese) when I have a roll stretch stick or a rolled up towel in my knee crease, but without it, it's painful. It's funny that you mention popliteus, as I've read that it can become significantly overactive and irritated after knee surgeries, due to messed up tracking and lack of movement for extended periods of time.

My hips are absolutely fine in terms of squatting and I feel no limitations at all, it just hurts, but when I do SLDP it helps the pain temporarily! :)

P.s. Olivia is right, I mean anterior, its a bit late here, sorry! :)

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Another quick question for those of you who know more than me:)

When I use a knee wrap wrapped semi tight around my knee I can also squat painfree. Could this be because the wrap keeps some of stuff that gets "in the way" compressed so that the joint compresses like it should?:)

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That and (this all depends on where the pain is experienced) for some people, the patella tracks more precisely when the knees are wrapped. Most Olympic lifters routinely wrap the knees for training sessions where volume is expected with those stretchy tube wraps that look like they're made out of something like thin wetsuit material. You don't need to go tight, either, to get this effect I have found, so might also be enhanced proprioceptive feedback.

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Hello,

First of all - sorry for my far-from-perfect english. I hope that I am understandable :)

It's my first post here, so hello everyone!

I'm writing to share with you my experiences with ecercises, ask for some tips and to ask some questions regarding programming.

Some exercises feels like they are too hard for me. For example Yuri cossack squats are definietely too demanding and difficult. I think that it is OK to skip them entirely while working on less complicated movement? Squatting movement combined with lunging motion is really hard to do with proper fluidity and paying attention to details. And when I'm struggling with movement I'm immediately tightening up.

Boxing the compass drill took me a while to figure it out. It took several session of messing with proper weight distribution beetween legs but it was worth it - it feels really good. One of the most beneficial drills for me, for sure.

I'm still fighting with standing piriformis stretch. I cannot feel it no matter how I rotate by body. However I have no problem with sitting version of piriformis stretch, so I think that it is completely OK to skip standing version if this is not working for me?

Overall all exercises are great and I'm really impressed by quality of videos and instructons. I've read article on how to use mastery programmes and I know that experimentation is a key, but I would be happy to hear your opinions about my experiments :).

1. I'm running two times a week, about 5-7K, 5m/km so nothing special. There are many opinions about stretching before exercising. However I've tried doing some L(imbering) exercises before my runing, mostly sumo squat, boxing the compass (lightly), squat sequence and rollstretch sequence. After this warm-up I feel much more glutes activation during run than before. Is it normal (or - predictable)? I think this is positive effect. What are your opinion about doing these drills before running? Is there any danger of injury? I know that stretching before strength training is not bad per se but what about endurance training?

2. I have tight ankles.Is it reasonable to stretch it more often? I've read that stretching them frequently (everyday or multiple times a day) can help, but maybe it will hinder my progress only? What do you think about stretching ankles and calves (lightly) before running? I feel like it is helping me to maintain correct foot strike (middle-foot instead of heel).

3. Is it better to do limbering in one go or to spread it throughout a day? I'm mostly in my house studying or reading and it is no problem to throw some cossacks here and there or to relax into deep lunge every hour. The question is - is there a possibility of overdoing limbering?

4. My lower body training consist mostly of kettlebell swings. Which exercises will be most beneficial for this work-out? Currently I'm mostly doing sumo limbering before, and hip flexor stretches after, but I wonder if this is correct approach.

I'm sorry if answers for my are obvious but there are so many resources about flexibility and strength training and I'm little confused.

cheers!

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Hi Pan, welcome.

A lot of points, I will just chip in with a few ideas. Im sure others will chip in too.

Cossack squats... start gently with less depth and perhaps using a post or door frame for support.

Standing piriformis... not all stretches work for all people. Im not a fan of this one, my knees (which are good) still feel too much twist even if I lock the knee as instructed which is a total distraction

Stretching and limbering... I am a big fan of using limbers before exercising to activate and wake up the relevant muscles. Consensus is that stretching (ie seeking new ranges of motion) is best done after (keep warm as possible)

KBS Swings... for the legs hamstrings too, as KBS is a hinge movement. I would also add something to open the chest and t-spine back up after KBS

Running... also do Kits foot sequence regularly and enhance it by massaging your soles with a lacrosse type ball, and again hamstrings and hipflexors and chest opening.

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PanBartosz wrote:

I feel much more glutes activation during run than before. Is it normal (or - predictable)? I think this is positive effect.

Definitely a positive effect. You know this.

The question is - is there a possibility of overdoing limbering?

Anything can be overdone. For many beginners, a Cossack squat is a major stretch—if that's the experience, then don't do daily, because it's not a limbering movement for you. Once it's not experienced as a stretch, then do daily. Spend some time on this thread:

http://kitlaughlin.c...r-the-programs/

Develop the habit of listening to your body; this will be repaid a thousand times.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Kit,

Quick couple of questions on Master the Squat. Second segment in the series "E1D Calf exercises," 6:45 seconds into the segment, "Single Leg Dog Pose." If you can't even put your heel to ground at all, is that an ankle mobility issue or a tight calf issue? Regardless, if you can't get the heel down can you do it with the heel off the ground, or skip it? Thanks!

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Hi Jay,

Kit has only just returned and is jet lagged, so I will provide an interim answer until he can address it more completely. I would advise that you simply raise your hands with blocks until they are high enough that you can do the exercise with the foot flat. The sensory information delivered to the foot from the contact with the ground is extremely important to the operation of this exercise, and changes the experience in the body considerably (most notably in my system from "oh shit my ankle is going to snap" to "its ok my foot is supported by the ground" which allows me to go further into the position).

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Quick couple of questions on Master the Squat. Second segment in the series "E1D Calf exercises," 6:45 seconds into the segment, "Single Leg Dog Pose." If you can't even put your heel to ground at all, is that an ankle mobility issue or a tight calf issue? Regardless, if you can't get the heel down can you do it with the heel off the ground, or skip it? Thanks!

I started this with my hands elevated say the height of the seat of a chair. I am less focussed on how low my hands are than getting a stretch all the way from my feet to my hips. I generally finish off a session with SLDP after doing ankles calves hamstrings etc in isolation first. I'm lucky to have ladder bars at home which is ideal to walk hands down one bar at a time.

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Craig,

Thanks very much; that's helpful. I didn't think you wanted to do it with heels off the ground, but wasn't sure how else to do it.

By the way, purchased and downloaded your latest wrist conditioning program. Very nice. Some overlap with the wrist exercises I am doing as part of the GMB Elements program, but also some new things.

Thanks again!

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First post here. Just a little tale to introduce myself, so you know where I am coming from and how I ended up getting the Mastery programs. Somewhat long winded, too. My apologies for that. And, feel free to skip the fourth paragraph if you are not interested. You won’t miss much (i.e. it doesn’t meet the 50 years test).

First of all, I do want to express my appreciation of Kit and his team and this community. I like the open minded and intelligent discussions and the approach of how to work on remapping the brain presented here. The only negative that I have are the prices for the Mastery series. Getting access to such a wealth of information for the price of one beer in the center of Amsterdam, has kept me awake at night feeling guilty about being a cheap freeloader. But may be there is a lesson for me there (i.e. being a freeloader is not such a bad thing after all).

I am an aging athlete (73 years) of about average innate ability, who -for a lot of very good reasons- spends more time on staying “fit” then, say, 99% of his age group (one to two hours a day, seven days a week). And, I am happy to say, with very good results (not in the least for my ego). My main sports are (race) rowing and rock climbing.

I discovered Kit’s approach to (and philosophy about) stretching and flexibility while getting more and more frustrated with the so-called “mobility” part of the GB Foundation courses (which otherwise imho are very good if you want to do gymnastic strength training). Quite a few of these mobility elements require strength and coordination in ranges of movement that for a lot of adults are not readily available anymore because they have lost so much of their “natural” flexibility. The program insists that the required increases in flexibility can be brought about simultaneously with the required increases in strength and coordination over the newly acquired range of movement; at the (protected) forums the complaining practitioner is simply told that he/she should just show some "character" and stick with it. Since in the Foundation program mobility elements are coupled with strength elements within a strict structure of progressions, the rigid insistence that one should master a mobility element before moving on to the next strength element can become a real roadblock resulting in frustration and disenchantment; what should be fun starts to feel like a straight jacket. The growing feeling of “what the *^?” is compounded by the somewhat rigid refusal of the author/owner of the program to engage in a discussion about this and -lately- his backhanded censoring of posted suggestions to look at specific alternative approaches to first improve flexibility. Ego coupled with a limited view of this fabulously diverse world we live in can lead to abject behavior. I already knew that, but it is always a bit sad to have to decide that you are looking at it again.

In spite of all of the above, I still think that, compared to all other gymnastic strength training courses that I know of, the GB Foundation courses have a lot to offer (at least the courses F1, F2, H1 and R1, that I have). They have given me a valuable tool box of progressive strength exercises and mobility exercises (that I can start with once I have gained the required flexibility).

So, I will definitely continue to use the course material when and where it will meet my personal needs. Try it that way and you will like it.

For a more intelligent and open minded discussion about how to work with my own body and how to increase mobility, I will be looking here. And, of course, I hope to add something positive to the discussion now and then.

Cheers.

[P.S. I know that in the past month some stretching courses have been added to the GB Foundation program (with the price of a five course dinner for two in a two-Michelin-star restaurant, also in the center of Amsterdam). Not for me though. Too little, too late. I think I will take my wife for dinner, instead.]

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Hi Fritz! Nice to have you on board, I have been following your work for some time now with envy. Please continue leading by example!

Thank you got the frank review. In regards to the price point, the best thing you can do to help out is simply spread the word and share your own wealth of experience here and elsewhere. The community is, after all, what this is really about! (A few bucks to help pay rent is an added bonus :))

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