The "Sensible Eating" article, written for Stretching & Pregnancy

[nick_kuchedav]

Finally, I will post all the points I wanted to comment on the last time.

And just for the record- I read the whole article before my first post and here are the topics that I have a different opinion on.

1. The daily amount of protein. 

--IMO a bit higher amount for the women can be beneficial (70g as a lower limit). If we spoke for a man this would be 2-3 times higher. I know that if you don't demand a lot from your body (in terms of tissue damage) it can survive with a small amount of protein, but in my experience, nt functions better when double it.

2. Essential fatty acids

--Firstly, As far as I know, nowadays short chain FAs are no longer considered essential. So EPA and especially DHA intake is the key.

--Secondly, DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid- long chain omega3) instead of alpha-linolenic acid intake is more beneficial, due to the bad conversion rate of the second. I've read in some sources that only less than 3% of ALA becomes DHA. This means that there are a lot of cases that you can eat flax seed and don't get an adequate amount of EFA. The easiest solution to this problem will be fish and fish oil.

--3. I would mention that the Glycemic index can be influenced by a person's insulin sensitivity (IS), too. I know you mention that GI isn't always the best indicator, so I just would add that IS could be a factor, too.

4. Carbohydrate is the preferred energy source for our bodies.

--Carbohydrate IS CONDITIONED TO BE the preferred energy source for our bodies.

5. White sugar is rich in carbohydrate, but contains no other nutrients in fact, its digestion removes various micronutrients from the body,

--Which ones? If you mean like "there are a lot of substances that take part in Cabrs metabolism" the same is true for the other macros category, too.

Also, all the talks about NASH (fatty liver disease)caused by high fructose intake seem to need quite a huge amount of fructose daily, so I don't think about this danger very often.

6. In contrast, spinach is rich in a large variety of nutrients

--Rich compare to sugar, but not compare to beef liver https://chriskresser.com/natures-most-potent-superfood/

great speach about this topics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwbY12qZcF4 . The same author speaks about why whole grains, seeds, and beans are not so healthy, nutrient dense and actually have all the benefits only when consumed in raw state (which human being couldn't do).

7. As far as possible, you should try to eat food that is relatively kilojoule sparse and relatively nutrition rich because this ensures that the amount of nutrition you get in each mouthful of food is optimised

--IMO this is particularly true if the person has eaten only McDonalds and Coca-Cola and have to lose a lot of body weight. Also, every woman needs to be extremely careful about putting herself in deficit during pregnancy, and this is really easy if she decides to eat "clean and healthy". In most cases, he/she needs to eat both a lot of micros and macros to live optimally.

8. And remember that all foods eaten in excess of energy requirements are stored as fat.

--And this isn't always a bad thing. I know everybody wants to be shredded but "normal" body fat % could make you more productive, strong and healthy (15+% for a man and 20-25% for a woman).

9. In general, lower GI foods are preferable to higher GI foods because foods with a lower GI provide energy over a longer period.

--This depends on the specific situation and goals. I used to say exactly the same sentence but really often people end up in quite big deficit state (it seems like many people don't like eating healthy) and after a few days they do quite a big cheat day (binge eating).

10. The refining process generally increases carbohydrate density (the amount of carbohydrate in any volume of food) and fat content too.

--But nonrefined grains contain a lot of phytonutrients some of which could be harmful for the body.

11.Medium-quality protein and medium-density carbohydrates

dried beans

kidney beans

lentils

chick-peas

cracked wheat

brown rice

soy beans (canned beans are OK)

tofu

 

--All plant based protein intake have to be carefully watched from my perspective because too little vegetarians consume adequate protein quality (both in term of essential aminnos and total quality).

12.Medium-quality protein and beneficial fat; high nutrition

brazil nuts

pecan nuts

almonds

cashews

hazel nuts

avocado

--I'm not a big fan of using nuts as a healthy fats source. I'm not a big fan of using them in general. (because of their high omega-6 fats and low nutrient density compared to meat and even dairy)

13. Medium-high density carbohydrate; low-medium protein; good nutrition

‘heavy’ breads (dark rye, pumpernickel)

slow-cooking oats

whole-grain pasta

Less desirable are the ordinary brown bread, and the least desirable is white bread – even if the label does say that it is fortified with extra fibre.

 

--I don't like this recommendation from nutrition density and gluten (antinutrients) point of view. For some circles gluten is just fashion for me there is something there. For the same reason, I would prefer white bread instead of other (most defense mechanism of the plant are in the shell).

If you are concerned about excess cholesterol intake, simply do not eat some of the yolks. (The yolk contains some cholesterol, but many nutritious substances too.)

--Dietary Cholesterol intake doesn't affect your plasma cholesterol (or if it does it is in small amount). The body usually produces between 5-20 times more cholesterol than average cholesterol intake.

Bacon and eggs supply a good amount of protein – often missing in many modern breakfasts – but can supply significant amounts of saturated fat. Reserve for special occasions, and use lean bacon!

--PUFA is way more of a problem here, than the SFA. So this breakfast is ok.

Health shake

--I recommend shakes only to people that want/need to gain weight.

Trans-fatty acids are toxins produced by heating and refining oils, and using oils to fry. In the pursuit of good health

-- particular type of trans-fatty acids. There are TFA that promote health.

This is because the body can assimilate only about 25 grams of protein at any one sitting.

--There are a lot of evidances this to be a myth.

The best vegetable source of this particular fatty acid is the oil derived from flax seeds.

--Again short chain omega-3. The best option is fish oil IMO.

If you are going to supplement vitamin A intake, it is better to take beta-carotene (a double molecule of vitamin A that your body breaks down as needed), or to make sure that you eat as many different coloured vegetables as possible.

--There a lot of people which body couldn’t do this breakdown. Also, the conversation rate is less than 1% according to some sources.

Vitamin D is manufactured by the body and its manufacture is accelerated by exposure to ordinary sunlight.

--Not everyone can do this. Also uv sunlight is needed and this could be a problem for specific regions of the world.

The best sources of carbohydrates are wholegrain products, fruits, and vegetables

IMO the rank has to be:

1.veggies 2.Fruits. 3.sugar 4.beans 5.grains.

Hopefully you will find something helpfull in my post. After probably an year I manage to post it.

[Nathan]

13 hours ago, nick_kuchedav said:

Hopefully you will find something helpfull in my post. After probably an year I manage to post it.

Lots of good stuff there. A lot I agree with, and some not so much, but likely a result of wording for the most part. As a general overall comment, I will say that a good number of your points of contention seem to be largely a matter of audience, i.e. who the advice is meant for (and what are their goals). I am sure Kit will comment on that, and I may come back with some of my thoughts if anything remains after Kit has addressed your points.

[nick_kuchedav]

5 hours ago, Nathan said:

. A lot I agree with, and some not so much, but likely a result of wording for the most part.

Great, buddy! I would be happy to hear "not so much" part, when you have time  

But for sure context is really important, and this is the biggest change in my dietary approach for the last few years- I still believe/support almost the same things as a few years ago, but now I consider how to present my tips and the amount of info way more.

[jaja]

20 hours ago, nick_kuchedav said:

For some circles gluten is just fashion for me there is something there.

Could you please expand on that?

[nick_kuchedav]

41 minutes ago, jaja said:

Could you please expand on that?

Have you read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Grain-Brain-Surprising-Sugar-Your-Killers/dp/031623480X 

From what I've seen the amount of damage that the gluten cased is measured mainly by an acute immune reaction and GI distress. There are a lot of talks about this topic from the Paleo Diet Crowd.

I also understand that there are many unreliable sources but Perlmutter and Tom O'bryan I think are on the right track.

[Kit_L]

Nick, all good from me.

Can readers of this thread keep in mind that the article that started this thread was written a long time ago, and as a short introduction to principles of nutrition for women contemplating pregnancy. No mention of recommendation for men's diets was made there, IIRC. And my recommendation of 70g/day was just that: a recommendation. More definitely would not be a dis-benefit.

Re. your point 4: I know this, and I know that you know I know this—if you read the article I wrote on ketogenic diets:

https://stretchtherapy.net/do-you-want-to-diet-dont/

I think that point is made. And I would counter-argue that 99%+ of the readers of Stretching & Pregnancy are conditioned to function on glucose; I do not recommend this myself.

I agree completely re. saturated fats as I mentioned before; I was attempting to steer a nutritional 'middle ground' and at that time saturated fats were regarded as the work of the devil by most writers and researchers; remember the book is about exercise primarily. I wanted readers who do not have our kind of body connection to really think about what they put in their mouths—that was the main purpose. Please remember that the idea of "calorie dense–nutritionally sparse" was brand new then, too.

Re. your point 8: I knew from Jennifer that significant weight gain is a constant fear in pregnant women, hence that note.

Re. point 9: yes, but the general point is sound.

Agree on your points re. cholesterol 100%.

Re. point 10: do we write a general simple chapter, or do we write a diet book? I know there are exceptions to most of the points I make, but in general they are sound. Same for your objection to betacarotene and vitamin D; of course supplement this if you live far enough North—this was written in Australia, for Australians.

I agree with your fish oil recommendations and your ranking of carbohydrates. I would change this for vegetarians.

Re. gluten: a significant fraction of the population do have a problem with this (and a bigger problem with lectins) so I take your objection to grains (and beans, too) on board. In this aspect, each person has to try these foods for themselves to see how they react—AFAIK, there is no way to do that without personal experimentation.

My recommendation re. nuts I still stand by (particularly for vegetarians), if only for the variety of the fats contained. I was not thinking then of their protein content so much.

On TFAs, though—what are the beneficial ones? My source of information on TFAs came from Udo Erasmus's book (Fats that heal, fats that kill). 

Considering now the points made by @pogo69, @Nathan, and @nick_kuchedav, why don't you three collaborate on rewriting that article, and I will post it as a supplement and as a new article here? We can highlight just how much has changed informationally in the time that has passed since its first publication.

[Pat (pogo69)]

On 11/9/2018 at 8:05 AM, Kit_L said:

I agree with your fish oil recommendations and your ranking of carbohydrates. I would change this for vegetarians.

I agree, with caveat.

It would be far preferable for people to obtain their omega-3 from oily fish.  There is a wealth of research that demonstrates far greater benefit from fish, than from omega-3 supplements alone.  Seafood is also very nutrient dense, with respect to essential minerals.

But for those who cannot (seafood can be very expensive, if you're not catching it yourself), supplementation can be useful.

On 11/9/2018 at 8:05 AM, Kit_L said:

Re. gluten: a significant fraction of the population do have a problem with this (and a bigger problem with lectins) so I take your objection to grains (and beans, too) on board. In this aspect, each person has to try these foods for themselves to see how they react—AFAIK, there is no way to do that without personal experimentation.

As is the case for many intolerances.  Gluten, lactose, casein, nightshades, FODMAPS, etc.  If you're experiences unexplained, high inflammation, it costs comparatively little to eliminate potential stressors for a while.

On 11/9/2018 at 8:05 AM, Kit_L said:

My recommendation re. nuts I still stand by (particularly for vegetarians), if only for the variety of the fats contained. I was not thinking then of their protein content so much.

Agreed.  All things in moderation, as they say.  Nuts can be valuable sources of minerals, particularly for vegetarians.

On 11/9/2018 at 8:05 AM, Kit_L said:

On TFAs, though—what are the beneficial ones? My source of information on TFAs came from Udo Erasmus's book (Fats that heal, fats that kill).

There are naturally occurring TFA, such as CLA (conjugated linoleic acid), in dairy and meat from grass-fed ruminants.  It is, in the modest amounts consumed via these foods, of benefit to health.

The main issue with TFA from processed foods, is the vast quantities in which we can now consume them.  Moderation and (highly) processed food are largely incompatible.