tennis elbow

[Redhotgo]

Hi Kit

i have been battling tennis elbow for sometime and with the information i have received from this forum and your OBNP book & OOS dvd i have improved the condition but not cured it.I now believe the brachioradialis is the culprit and was hoping you could suggest an effective stretch.Thanks in advance.

Regards

Malcolm

[Frederik]

Hello Malcolm,

While I cannot claim to be Kit or an expert on the diagnosis and treatment of tennis elbows, there was a recent thread on a stick stretch which do hit the brachioradialis:

thread:http://kitlaughlin.com/forums/index.php?/topic/467-forearm-stick-stretch/

and the video url for the stretch:

If you want help it would probably be helpful if you gave a bit more information on what activities you pursue, and what might have triggered the issue in the first place?

regards,

Frederik

[Emmet Louis]

I've found Diy "Graston" technique and "voodoo floss" on the elbows to have done more for my elbow health than anything else I've tried. If you look up youtube there's a wealth of videos on the topics. The implements can just be copied from stuff you have around the house.

[Craig]

I would also recommend to start doing heaps of relaxed hanging. get your two armed dead hang up to sets of 60s (or more), and then shift to single arm dead hangs, again being as relaxed as possible.

You could also get into trying different grips in a relaxed hang, such as false grip and fingertip grip.

Finally look at strengthening the wrists. You can see some examples of wrist strengthening exercises from the start of this video (my god I've come a long way since then!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQMtp6zgfWg#t=24

use the knee positioning to adjust the difficulty. knees closer to hands is easier, knees further away is harder (until you can get into the full pushup position).

This is just really basic stuff, obviously if any of this hurts your elbow, don't do it (or regress it to the point where it doesn't hurt your elbow).

[AndeL]

This is just really basic stuff, obviously if any of this hurts your elbow, don't do it (or regress it to the point where it doesn't hurt your elbow).

-I regressed to doing a lot of novel movements: refer GB stickies, then light bands, avoiding pain (not sure if this is the way to go, but Ido & others at GB seemed to recommended this - well to clarify: I think that is what they said. Ido's quote was something like 'no pain means no pain').

-+1 re graston/gua sha, this feels nice

-ONBP exercises 38, 42, 43, 44 etc - I kind of think if I did this even just limbering mostly, after not overdoing things I would have been better off eg as a release. I recently pushed myself with false grip work and a couple of muscle ups - then did the wall stretch. Totally released the feelings that used to scare me. I am not any where ready to train muscle ups, but the thought was that this approach, to limber and stretch, was progress.

-rest

Just my current theories, keen to hear a 'perfect' protocol or have my thinking shifted.

My forearms seem ok now, though weak and I don't really push them yet. I gave them a lot of time to heal, but I lacked stretch knowledge and clear direction I think back then and was more timid.

[Adurst]

- keen to hear a 'perfect' protocol

Does not exist!

A very personal moving target

[Craig]

(not sure if this is the way to go, but Ido & others at GB seemed to recommended this - well to clarify: I think that is what they said. Ido's quote was something like 'no pain means no pain').

It's a tricky balancing act, as the body starts to send all sorts of mixed signals during healing. Getting to understand when your body is saying "that's uncomfortable because i'm weak or haven't done that in a while" vs "DONT DO THAT COS YOU'LL BREAK SHIT" is a very useful skill.

Not enough movement and your body will start to atrophy (see: arm coming out of a cast after 6-8 weeks of no movement...the arm is basically dying). Too much movement and you could aggravate the injury further. But for me, when rehabing, there is a lot of time spent in the "this is really uncomfortable" zone. On this topic, we had a guy at the retreat who had broken his wrist the night before. He chose not to get it in a cast and instead used it the whole week, simply being careful not to hurt it further. By the end of the 5 days, he said his wrist was feeling much better and he was already hanging from it and supporting his entire weight on it during climbing and crawling with only very slight discomfort (yes, this was on a broken wrist that was 10 days old).

[Adurst]

Getting to understand when your body is saying "that's uncomfortable because i'm weak or haven't done that in a while" vs "DONT DO THAT COS YOU'LL BREAK SHIT" is a very useful skill.

This and riding the super-compensation wave are two of the most fundamental internal awareness skills for training, getting progress without getting hurt.

Both are highly related or even the same.

Enough stimulous to create the desired adaptation...not so much that you get hurt or don't recover/supercompensate.

More and harder is better...till you hit that line then BOOM! The train derails, catches fire, blows up a small town and pollutes the ground water.

So it is best to take things slow at first and edge your way up...their are always a few little hints right before it happens. But you have to be keenly paying attention.

For under-recovery...your CNS is a good clue (grip strength and my favorite fine motor speed are ways of monitoring overtime) big decrease? Your not recovering...keep that up...and you'll induce global fatigue and say good bye not only to improving...but likely some of your previous gains.

For an acute joint or muscle injury their are also signs...but is pretty easy to blow past them if your not mindful. Classic case is the person that thinks they can still do the dance move they used to do 25 years ago, such as dropping into splits...body still thinks so too...so it just let's them do it...boom injury...had they warmed slowly into it...their body would recognise they can't do it anymore and stop them at an earlier progression prior to injury. Usually

[Adurst]

As a side note....or wait...a main not...as it directly applies to the problem....and my other ramblings don't.

There are lots of causes of elbow pain...many refer from other points in the body.

Is the pain lateral or medial, posterior or anterior, and superficial or deep? And is it peripheral (forearm side), centered (square on joint) or central (upper arm side)...even if just marginally.

Describe the pain: dull, sharp, throbbing, radiating, electric?

Can you fully extend your elbow?

What is the best way you can think of to maximize the pain (don't do it).

Where it hurts and what is causing the pain are often not the same.

As for brachioradialis stretch (edit: upon filming I realized I was wrong) good stretch...but not quite right.

This is the one you want...partner needed

[Adurst]

Regardless...two additional stretches that will not hurt your mission.

1) a partner assist on the flexion and twist really helps

http://youtu.be/jDa65W6tRCU

2) a fantastic forearm/wrist flexion stretch...I do these as part of my wrist joint prep...but I move my knees further back to load more.

http://youtu.be/sxs9oh3maj0

[Kit_L]

Nice work Adam! I remember pinning Mauro in that position...

[[DW]]

@ Adurst - They're some nice forearms you're sporting there!

[Adurst]

@ Adurst - They're some nice forearms you're sporting there!

Thanks!

They love me at the blood donor clinic

Last time the nurse asked if she could try with her eyes closed! I declined.

I'm a rock star there...because I'm also O Negative (universal donor). The nurses all swoon over my veins, and blood.

All goes straight to my head.

[Tris]

LOL

Good move declining the blind needle insertion. It's such a lucky dip experience. Sometimes I think "oh! it's in?" and other times... like the GP that took a blood sample, and his insertion was ballistic, like it actually had a back swing (I don't know why).