Developing Strength at End ROM

[Kit_L]

Cody wrote:

It seemed to me that the key to developing this strength is to use just enough weight to achieve strength adaptation but still allow for maximal ROM in the movement.

Gold, that.

@ Adam: interesting. How did you select the start point of that video?

[Emmet Louis]

Kit if you add "&t=XmYs" where X Y is the start time to the end of a youtube address it'll load the video at that time

[AndeL]

It is also part of the share tab below youtube videos now as a tick box and start at: field.

[Kit_L]

Thanks guys; v. helpful. Both approaches copied into Evernote!

Now: can you advise how to set a more sensible file upload size on this board? (I am just on a little rant here; I have e-mailed my favourite IT Guru who runs a large number of boards using the same software and I'm hoping he can come back with a clear answer. Personally I find this interface frustrating to use.

For example has anyone noticed that if you've bolded or italicised any term and keep typing and then later need to use the delete key it jumps the cursor straight back to the end of the work you just bolded or italicised? How lame is that? And apparently this has been a problem with IP board for years.

[Craig]

Kit,

Are you on the latest version of IP board? Perhaps an update is in order!

also, re youtube playing from specific times, you can simply right click on the time slider at the time you want and select "Get video URL at current time" (easier than changing code)

[Adurst]

Ok Tried

"The Chopping Block"

Not sure what it is supposed to do. (Assume it is tricep/shoulder...lat?)

Prep for handstand line?

In the video her elbows are in front of her face...I can easily drop below. So I have to put my elbows right on the edge so head clears ledge.

I can achieve and hold her position (on knees) (or lower) for a bunch of reps (lifting with elbows) or time. Holding 9kg just off my back/not resting...in a hollow body.

Maybe this just isn't the medicine I need?

Or am I doing wrong?

[Adurst]

Crap...double post...sorry

[Emmet Louis]

@Adhurst you've described my experience with it.

[Adurst]

Only thing I can think is that it isn't a stretch but conditioning.

I suppose your not to lower head below...but hold just off surface. Weight just off back. Hollowbody with ribs intensely tucked, tail tucked...move knees back as you get more awesome.

Great conditioning for handstand bodyline.

[Cody Sunkel]

Only thing I can think is that it isn't a stretch but conditioning.

I suppose your not to lower head below...but hold just off surface. Weight just off back. Hollowbody with ribs intensely tucked, tail tucked...move knees back as you get more awesome.

Great conditioning for handstand bodyline.

Yup, the chopping block is one of the excercises I've been experimenting with on myself and my students. For me, it is what you described - an awesome handstand bodyline conditioning drill, but for many of my students its triceps, lats, shoulders, scaps, etc. etc. varying from person to person. I reckon it serves a different purpose for different people.

In other news, I worked up to 10 full ROM loaded pancake reps with 35#, and can now get into this position cold every time - no warm-up or limbering needed - even with extra weight. Pretty stoked on this.

I also started doing iso front splits and I've had pretty fast progress with it. Other than Kit's hip flexor partner stretch, it is the best thing I've found for the hip flexors, and I can feel the strength coming in the back of the knee and hammies in the end ROM.

Middle splits are still in the works, but making steady progress with iso holds, and started messing with assisted middle split presses. REALLY like the presses - going to start doing a lot more of this with a pulley system.

Curious if anyone else is playing with this stuff?

[Adurst]

I've been doing my splits on rings.

Rings set 1cm off ground. Feet in the rings. Hands on a strap or both depending on front or side splits.

[Emmet Louis]

In other news, I worked up to 10 full ROM loaded pancake reps with 35#, and can now get into this position cold every time - no warm-up or limbering needed - even with extra weight. Pretty stoked on this.

I also started doing iso front splits and I've had pretty fast progress with it. Other than Kit's hip flexor partner stretch, it is the best thing I've found for the hip flexors, and I can feel the strength coming in the back of the knee and hammies in the end ROM.

Middle splits are still in the works, but making steady progress with iso holds, and started messing with assisted middle split presses. REALLY like the presses - going to start doing a lot more of this with a pulley system.

Curious if anyone else is playing with this stuff?

I'm doing the Iso-middle spilts progression from Martial arts planet, its literally been the best thing for my middle splits ever. To put in context about 8 years ago I had a grade 2 tear in both adductors from a shit coach putting all her weight into me when in an over middle, since then I've never been able to rejoin the crotch to the floor crew. Now I can see its back within my grasp.

Been trying the Iso front splits too but finding it hard to get a decent position to do it in. If i do knee down can't really get leverage on the hip flexor if I do straight legs I can't balance, Any advice?

[Craig]

Emmet: Try the front split on the rings, its fantastic. put one ring about 1cm off the ground and the other at a height that is comfortable for you to hold on to to help maintain balance. Put your front foot in the ring and let it slide out to the front, back foot with the toes curled under and use the second ring to help maintain your balance. I actually like to take a few steps back away from the ring before I let it slide forward, it just feels nicer for me.

Cody: I've actually been a little slack with my weighted stretching (and practice in general in the last few weeks). Going to get back into it in a good way starting NOW. Even with the small amount I have been doing, I've been making good progress.

Loaded stretches I've been working on:

- Hanging pancake using stall bars

- standing side splits +10kg (working up to +20kg)

- dancers front split, back knee on ground +10kg (working up to +20kg)

- tailor's pose (+10kg per leg, occasionally +40kg per leg when kit stands on me)

Things I might add to this routine back into this routine that I was doing previously:

- standing pike

- ring split routine

- pu bu +10kg

[thanners]

I was first taught the 'chopping block' by Ido, who'd referred to it as a 'tri-lat-insertion stretch' (or something). At least, I think it's the same as what's being described here, since I can't watch the video at the moment. I do it while maintaining hollow body, trying to keep shoulders externally rotated, and move my knees back. I don't do it fully extended on my feet because I simply can't hold it long enough for it to feel like it has any benefit. I like to hold it for a minute.

I've also had a partner massage around the shoulder while I am holding this position, and it feels pretty amazing.

[Emmet Louis]

@ Craig thanks just tried it quickly will try for a couple of weeks and report.

I also added in the pancake good mornings, very interested in these as pancake has always been a really weak point for me, also my sister so might just run in the family.

Also if the chopping block is aimed at the Tri-lat insertion, you're basically trying to target a zone of convergence might respond to "graston" technique quick well.

[Adurst]

Straddle ups and pancake good mornings have done wonders for my pancake.

I'm getting pretty close to the end range (forehead to belly button is on the floor...just need to drag hips through more and flatten low back.

I can thank Kit for getting me to the floor...but I think the above exercises are making it accessible without a warm-up or process.

[Cody Sunkel]

Emmet: Try the front split on the rings, its fantastic. put one ring about 1cm off the ground and the other at a height that is comfortable for you to hold on to to help maintain balance. Put your front foot in the ring and let it slide out to the front, back foot with the toes curled under and use the second ring to help maintain your balance. I actually like to take a few steps back away from the ring before I let it slide forward, it just feels nicer for me.

Cody: I've actually been a little slack with my weighted stretching (and practice in general in the last few weeks). Going to get back into it in a good way starting NOW. Even with the small amount I have been doing, I've been making good progress.

Loaded stretches I've been working on:

- Hanging pancake using stall bars

- standing side splits +10kg (working up to +20kg)

- dancers front split, back knee on ground +10kg (working up to +20kg)

- tailor's pose (+10kg per leg, occasionally +40kg per leg when kit stands on me)

Things I might add to this routine back into this routine that I was doing previously:

- standing pike

- ring split routine

- pu bu +10kg

Sweet, I'll definitely have to give the rings front splits a go. I'm starting to understand the advantages of loading the middle split hold, even if it's in a lesser ROM. With iso MS I feel there is still a limbering process in the beginning as I sink down, but it seems that by loading the higher ROM and building strength there, you'd have that immediate "no warm-up" access to the that ROM before sinking down to what is truly your iso end range.

@ Emmet & Adurst I have some students who have been using the loaded pancake for the past couple months with limited gains in ROM. I'm thinking I might take them down to the pancake good mornings first. What do you guys feel is a good point to transition to the seated pancake? And is there another variation you feel should come before even pancake GMs? Thanks guys, very interesting discussion!!!

[Keilani Gutierrez]

i think the part where you'd want to play sherrif is in the hip hinge portion of the pancake good morning.

so for me, doing standing variations have proved to be helpful (also for focused piriformis stretch, for example) with this focus on hinging the hip.

[Craig]

Cody: Are the pancake good mornings just the lower down and up with the oly bar that you were doing in your clip?

at any rate, if you remember where my pancake was when you got here, I can now just touch my head to the ground. I have been using the hanging pancake almost exclusively. I prefer this over the weighted pancake at this current ROM as my hips don't move far enough forward yet I feel to be able to do the weighted ones without it just being all back. Hanging pancakes, on the other hand, really get right into the hip and I can do them with a totally flat back, and Kit has been providing some partner assistance which is fantastic. 3 x 30r pulses, where the pulse comes from rolling the hips forward (tail un tuck) briefly.

[MT Nordic]

tell me about these hanging pancakes please....

[Craig]

basically you need a wide stall bars or any place that has two solid bars that are wide enough for you to get your legs apart on, climb up, get your legs to the width you want for your pancake, and then lower yourself down so you're hanging in the position.

I cant find a picture of this one, but here is a more difficult variation (inverted hanging pancake):

[MT Nordic]

Thanks, Craig. Very cool sounding. I'll experiment with the inverted one.

[Emmet Louis]

@cody I haven't used the load pancake on clients yet so have no research base to speak from but I have used a straddle jefferson curl but if the persons pelvis isn't rolling over the top then I change to something different. For a lot of people I find side bending to be a big part of opening up someones straddle I spend a good amount of time working on peoples triangle pose.

[terje]

@adurst, how do you do the straddle ups?

[Cody Sunkel]

Cody: Are the pancake good mornings just the lower down and up with the oly bar that you were doing in your clip?

at any rate, if you remember where my pancake was when you got here, I can now just touch my head to the ground. I have been using the hanging pancake almost exclusively. I prefer this over the weighted pancake at this current ROM as my hips don't move far enough forward yet I feel to be able to do the weighted ones without it just being all back. Hanging pancakes, on the other hand, really get right into the hip and I can do them with a totally flat back, and Kit has been providing some partner assistance which is fantastic. 3 x 30r pulses, where the pulse comes from rolling the hips forward (tail un tuck) briefly.

Nice! Lots of progress with that it sounds like. I dont (yet) have regular access to stall bars so I'm not sure when I'll be able to give that a go.

When I hear or say good mornings I'm thinking from a standing position. More of a straddle straight leg GM. I did this with my workout partner who I program mobility and gymnastics for (Chris - he's in the clip) and he says he thinks its the answer to getting in the right starting position for the seated (loaded) pancake. He's able to get in that "tail un tuck" position better from standing, but from sitting, he always rounds the lumbar as he goes down, which sounds like the same thing that happens with you on the seated.

@Adurst I dig the idea of the straddle ups but dont fully understand them yet. I asked Craig about them a few months back but never experimented. Any insight would be appreciated!

@ Emmet Cool, I'll play around with the triangle pose