Improving the 4 postures (sitting, walking, standing and lying), working on hip flexors

[Sylvano]

Hello Team,

I am soliciting your help regarding pain and discomfort related to poor postures (sitting, walking, standing, lying). Sorry for the lengthy post, I tried to be comprehensive and accurate.

Posture Issues.

1.        Lying down: I get up every morning with a very sore lower back, tight upper back and neck. I mostly sleep on my back. The tightness in the neck usually remains during the day. 

2.        Standing: I tend to stand with my head forward, which pulls on my traps and creates tightness in the neck. My back is always a bit arched. It tires me over the day (pic 1 below).

3.        Sitting cross-legged: I meditate and sit every morning 45’ cross legged in the Burmese position. I go to retreats once a year where I spend between 6 to 10 hours a day in this position for several weeks. I cannot sit cross legged with a straight back (pic 2 below). No matter how I sit on the cushion, how forward I try to lean, my pelvis always points backwards, preventing my spine to be neutral, creating back pain over time. 

4.        Walking: I also do walking-meditation during these retreats (walking very slowly, approx.. 10 sec per step) which gives me a better understanding of my gate. I realized I have an anterior pelvic tilt which deteriorates the whole body dynamic. If I consciously “tuck my tail” while walking, the whole body straighten, the head tilt backward with and gaze become horizontal, and I get 2-3cm taller. However, tucking the tail hurts my hip flexors on my back leg as I walk. Also, if I stop paying attention to posture, the body arches back to its “standard” position. 

In conclusion, my poor posture leads to fatigue or pain in every position, and my body never really rests. This indeed impacts my energy, mood and behaviour.

Personal history 

-              I am a 32 yo male, 175 cm, 68 kg.

-              I have always been rather sporty, played soccer growing up, then did triathlon as a teenager and remained active since.

-              I have an office job where I spend 8h/day seated at a computer (changed to standing desk recently though).
 

Related injuries and pathologies

-              Injured both my adductors as a kid playing soccer.

-              2021: Plantar fasciitis / calcaneal spur on both feet. Had to put insoles in my shoes

-              2023: Patellofemoral pain syndrome on both knees. Did a performance test to assess eventual muscular imbalance on my hamstrings / quads, Power results put me in the category “old sedentary woman” (no joke). Strengthening exercises eventually stopped the pain.

-              2024: Started cross-fit to address point above, hurt my back jumping on a box (pain around T12, likely a short-timed vertebra dislocation, unclear).
 

Therapy strategy.

-              I recently got myself Overcome Neck and Back Pain  (ONBP) and I related to Kit’s discourse about tight hip flexors (HF) causing trouble. I do have a leg shorter than the other too. I started stretching HF 6 weeks ago (originally standing solo and with knee on the ground solo). I switched to the partner version 2 weeks ago which seems much more efficient. 

-              I try also to spend more time in deep squats, doing lunges, moving around with knees bent, etc... several times a day. 

-              I go to yoga classes a few times a week.
 

From Kit's books, I understand that what prevents the hips to tilt forward while sitting is a tight piriformis, but in my case, being quite far from a straight back, I am not sure it is the limiting factor.

I overall feel like my progress is very slow. I did not see significant reduction in discomfort / pain in the 4 positions mentioned above over 6 weeks. Any tip to work better and faster will be appreciated. If I simply need to be patient and keep working the same way, reassurance will help as well.

I thank you for reading this post and wish you a beautiful day  .

Sylvain

[Gareth O Connor]

This man's looking for help

[Kit_L]

A brief reply from me today; and if what I write is not sufficiently helpful, please post again.

In order of likely causes, you mentions that you are getting a partner to stretch your hip flexors. This is a very good start. As well, search for "quad hip flexor" on our YouTube channel. Do twice a week, if you're fully recovered from the last workout. Once a week will be effective. You absolutely need to recover from the previous workout, particularly in the case of the first half dozen sessions. It takes a long time to loosen the quads and hip flexors. I noticed your background of soccer – all soccer players have extremely tight quads and hip flexors – and they are also very strong as well. Nothing comes for free in this world!

As well, you cannot effectively meditate with your knees off the ground as your picture shows; pain is guaranteed.  Please put something underneath the outside of those knees like a rolled up hand towel and rest the knees on the support. On meditation retreats, this is called "building a nest". Once you can rest your knees on supports, you will find that the hip flexors will relax to some extent, and this will allow you to sit up straighter.

Have you seen the How to sit for meditation video on YouTube? It has all the exercises you need and is follow along.

With respect to sitting in the Burmese position, given how high your knees are up off the floor, you absolutely need a thicker cushion to sit on. You could even use a low bench to test this theory – when your hips are sufficiently higher, your back will be able to be straightened with less effort and your legs will rest on the ground. You may need something almost 200 mm in height.

 

[Gareth O Connor]

You said your body never really rests..this could be related to the modern way of life 

[Sylvano]

Hello Gareth and Kit,

Thank you very much for your replies !

• @Kit_L : Apologies, I did not show it in the picture but I do build a nest during my morning sessions, and I see the legs "dropping" at the end of the session.
• I will do the "wall quad + hip flexors from this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca54fyiIq2I&t=201s more thoroughly, with the frequency you recommend.
• Regarding the follow along video (I have watched it many times !), some of the exercises I cannot do yet. I was wondering : Could/should I do this sequence more frequently (daily?) as a limbering exercise?
• Duely noted for the cushion height. I noticed that if really I sit at the edge of my seat, and I manually place the inner foot in my groin, I can sit straighter, with my inner leg fully resting on the ground. However, my other leg butt cheek tend to lift from the ground and the pain in the foot becomes more intense (even with padding under the "outer" leg). Should I try to start my meditation in this position and get accustomed to it? I need to be so far out on the cushion that I tend to slip as well...
• Regarding the pain while sitting, I mostly feel it in the upper back. I assumed it was really the spine shape and the weight of my head due tu my upper back arched that created it. Also, as my lower back is tilted backward, if I try to straighten, my diaphragm cannot move well and I cannot breath properly.
• My main question is : Is it the tight quad and hip flexors that create this posterior pelvic tilt while seated? I can understand the anterior tilt in the standing position (psoas pulling the lumbar spine forward etc...), but why the opposite in the sitting position? Are therebe other group of muscles (hamstrings, adductors maybe?) involved? Should I focus on stretching them too?
• @Gareth O Connor this is a good point you raise. What I think regarding the modern way of life is that we tend to always be distracted from this pain/fatigue, and we   wiggle or move away from it unconsciously. I really noticed the body not resting due to poor posture after 14 days of 12h/day meditation (walking + sitting), when the mental "noise" had decreased. I think being distracted and not conscious about poor posture (slouching most of the time, working in the bed (sorry !!) ) for years created all these issues. But now I'm fully dedicated to make my body a strong, agile and peaceful vehicle 🦁 !

Thanks again! I hope to get a better understanding of all this :D.

[Jason]

I, too, have high knees in the Tailors' pose and sitting cross legged. My right knee gets achy after about 5-10 minutes of sitting cross legged during meditation. Never considered bolstering the knees but I'm going to try tomorrow. One thing I've found that really helps is a brief (~2 minutes) pigeon pose just to relax the piriformis (I think this is what's relaxing). It has really helped ease knee pain while meditating. So glad I saw this post.

[Kit_L]

On 5/8/2025 at 10:59 PM, Sylvano said:

Could/should I do this sequence more frequently (daily?) as a limbering exercise?

No, not if there are exercises in it that you can't yet do—because attempting them would be stretching, not limbering. Whichever parts you can do, while staying relaxed, can be limbering though, and these can be done daily, but you might become bored with them if you do. Anything done daily runs the risk of becoming routine—and if this happens, awareness has left the room. Only do these kind of things with full awareness, and presence in the sensations you experience as you are doing these things.

On 5/8/2025 at 10:59 PM, Sylvano said:

Should I try to start my meditation in this position and get accustomed to it?

No, just because you said this is painful. Do not do this.

Try sitting on a low bench as I suggested (~200 mm) just for a moment or two. Anything solid around that will do. Report back. 

Alternatively, try a seiza chair. These are used like this:

And please work on the advanced piriformis pose (it's the first pose on this page, HERE; lack of relaxed length in these muscles is why your pelvis is tilted back when you sit as you show above. This is also why you need a much higher support to sit on.

 

[Sylvano]

Hello ,

Thank you Kit for your former answer. I am focusing on 3 exercises that I do twice a week :

1. The partner hip flexors from here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtsQTfAwE4Y&list=PLFg3Gg2x1yNh8Kczjz2_1ttdj2QXkMaOc&index=18). I can see a bit of progress (I started 6 weeks ago), but I feel like my inner hamstring is the limiting factor. I try to push the heel of my front leg into the ground or pull it towards the rear as a C-R contraction but it does not seem to hit the exact area.
2. The partner wall quad + HF (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-WMSkf-kg4). I actually do this one solo as well. The idea was to find an exercise that focuses more on the quads, but I do not feel it very strongly there, rather a similar stretch than the one above. I will keep working on the form.
3. Piriformis : I am trying the table-top stretch. Here I have difficulties and seek for advice. 
   1. I do not feel the stretch in the buttock but rather on my inner hamstring and the outside of my thigh.
   2. I cannot have a straight back (even when I am fully upright in starting position my lower back tilts a bit backward).
   3. My torso actually twists a lot towards the foot on the table and I feel tension in my back from that torsion. Most of the tension I feel from this exercise is in the back (lower and middle I'd say).
   4. The stretch still feels pretty good overall in my legs and hip region, I just don't really feel it exactly where it should, even with CR contractions.

 

Cheers, 

Sylvain

 

 

[Kit_L]

On 5/20/2025 at 7:08 AM, Sylvano said:

but I feel like my inner hamstring is the limiting factor.

This may well be, or it could be one of the adductors, too. Try doing the tailor pose before doing this one, and try again and feel s this changes the sensations. As well, be aware that the partner who flex her exercise is designed to target the hip flexors – so if you find that there is too much sensation in the front leg, try closing the knee angle slightly and try again. So: two things to try: tailor pose, and once In the partner who flicked the exercise, try closing the knee angle slightly and redo everything. I would also ignore the CRs for the front leg and concentrate on the contractions for the back leg for a while.

On 5/20/2025 at 7:08 AM, Sylvano said:

I do not feel the stretch in the buttock but rather on my inner hamstring and the outside of my thigh.

In the beginning – and the 'beginning' could last for months – it is very common to feel the sensation there. Just like in the partner hip flexor exercise, you can experiment with the front leg's knee angle here too. When you have a moment, please take an image of you trying to touch your toes with a straight back – I suspect that your hamstrings are very tight as well as your hips generally.

On 5/20/2025 at 7:08 AM, Sylvano said:

I cannot have a straight back (even when I am fully upright in starting position my lower back tilts a bit backward).

What do you feel is causing this? Looking at the photographs in the posts above, you can see that your lower back can extend and does this in fact automatically when you're standing. When you start any exercise in any sitting position, like the table top piriformis above, don't even think about leaning forward until you can get that curve back in your lower back – this might mean that your torso is slightly behind vertical in the starting position if you're really tight. This is not a problem

In time, and enough additional movement in your life, these problems will resolve themselves. And in the process, you will learn the absolutely invaluable information about what exactly is tight or restricted in your body. I've said this many times before, but there is no simple formula for learning how to get flexible. This system is about identifying exactly what is tight in your own body, and what technique you need to use to loosen these. 

[Sylvano]

Hello Kit,

Thank you for your detailed answer. I will try to work patiently and diligently. I will add the Taylor pose to my routine as you suggested, making it :

1. Warm up : staying in a low squat and in a low lunge, "feeling it out"
2. Taylors
3. Wall Quad + HF
4. Partner HF
5. Table top Piriformis
6. All the OPNB neck exercises (currently my neck is the most painful area)

Here is a picture trying to touch my toes with a straight back (it's 1 hour after getting up so it is particularly tight).

I also got myself a seiza bench. It feels fine in my hips and legs, however the muscle in my neck are tense, due to my head being forward.

If I try to actively straighten up, I cannot breathe comfortably through my abdomen, I guess due to my pelvic floor and diaphragm not facing each other (felt this issue at the monastery).

I also have this exercise program during the week (sessions only last 45') :

• Tuesday : Indoor cycling (intense)
• Wednesday : Swimming
• Thursday : "movement practice", former judoka currently coaching Olympic French judoka, doing body management, etc.... It's hard to explain, here is his IG https://www.instagram.com/movement_paris_/
• Once or twice a week, gentle jog to the park with some "street workout" (pull ups, push-ups, squats, lunges,...) and movement exploration (side bends, handstands, torsions etc...).

and Try to alternate sitting and standing every hour while working.

Hope this will help !

Cheers,

Sylvain

[Sylvano]

And here is in the same evening (after stretching) !

[Kit_L]

On 5/22/2025 at 7:48 PM, Sylvano said:

If I try to actively straighten up, I cannot breathe comfortably through my abdomen, I guess due to my pelvic floor and diaphragm not facing each other (felt this issue at the monastery).

Can you explain what you mean here? If you take a deep breath in, with your spine beautifully aligned as it is in the second photograph, and then let your tummy relax completely as you breathe out, what happens? Hold your form while you do this. Your pelvic floor and diaphragm are facing each other in the second image better than they are in the first – so I simply cannot understand why you have difficulty breathing in that position.

On 5/22/2025 at 7:48 PM, Sylvano said:

however the muscle in my neck are tense, due to my head being forward.

Yes. The solution is to very gently lift the sternum (lift the chest), as mentioned below.

How to set up a sitting position is discussed from this point in the How to sit for meditation video:

https://youtu.be/BXWUuZyqPQ0?t=3463

The key points are: straighten the spine as you show perfectly, move backwards and forwards subtly (pivoting around the hip joints with a straight back) until you find your balance point; these movements can be millimetres; lift the chest slightly; bring the chin straight back very slightly; take a breath in and as you let the breath out let the tummy relax completely. Please just practice that and get back to us with your body's responses.

With respect to the photograph immediately above, your hamstrings are extremely tight; that is all. You do not need them to be loose in order to sit in a good meditation position. Last suggestion is do the https://stretchtherapy.net/relaxation-wiki/ lying relaxation practises for a month or two if you're not doing that already.

The final point is that you are at the very beginning of your journey – to be a bit frustrated after only practising for six or eight weeks is honestly simply not being realistic. You have had years in your life journey already, and all sorts of patterns and habits are set in your body. It will take time and energy and effort to change these – do not be in a hurry. Learning how to relax as a deeply embodied experience will help all of these problems.

[Sylvano]

Hello Kit & al,

I took some time to answer as I needed a few sittings to fully understand what is going on on the seiza bench.

On 5/23/2025 at 11:57 PM, Kit_L said:

Can you explain what you mean here? If you take a deep breath in, with your spine beautifully aligned as it is in the second photograph, and then let your tummy relax completely as you breathe out, what happens? Hold your form while you do this. Your pelvic floor and diaphragm are facing each other in the second image better than they are in the first – so I simply cannot understand why you have difficulty breathing in that position.

here is my current understanding : As it is difficult for me to open my upper (and "middle") back, I tended to over-arched the lower back, which then made my belly too stretched out to breath in and out comfortably. 

I am getting better at finding the right pelvis orientation on the bench and relax the tummy, however I still find it difficult to remain straight and not slowly tilt forward. I can meditate 45' comfortably at home for now though, so I'll work on getting it better till I find an effortless way to sit for long period during retreats.

On 5/23/2025 at 11:57 PM, Kit_L said:

The key points are: straighten the spine as you show perfectly, move backwards and forwards subtly (pivoting around the hip joints with a straight back) until you find your balance point; these movements can be millimetres; lift the chest slightly; bring the chin straight back very slightly; take a breath in and as you let the breath out let the tummy relax completely. Please just practice that and get back to us with your body's responses.

 

My tummy still tends to tighten from time to time, as well as my neck as my head tilts forward. I now observe the "infinite" combinations of orientations of the pelvis, spine, head, etc... as I meditate, and it can be overwhelming to find the best arrangement. I guess the body will in time find what's best. Thank you anyway for recommending the bench, my body feels more at peace and my meditations go better.

On 5/23/2025 at 11:57 PM, Kit_L said:

Last suggestion is do the https://stretchtherapy.net/relaxation-wiki/ lying relaxation practises for a month or two if you're not doing that already.

I read a bit of the wiki and the chapter dedicated to it in ONBP. The thing is, I already commit to a few mental development practices (Metta, Samadhi, Vipassana). I will eventually lay down for some sessions and see how it goes.

On 5/23/2025 at 11:57 PM, Kit_L said:

The final point is that you are at the very beginning of your journey – to be a bit frustrated after only practising for six or eight weeks is honestly simply not being realistic. You have had years in your life journey already, and all sorts of patterns and habits are set in your body. It will take time and energy and effort to change these – do not be in a hurry. Learning how to relax as a deeply embodied experience will help all of these problems.

Roger that. I did not mean to be irreverent in expressing haste. Usually, even if it is a long journey, you can see intermediate results that show you are on the right track. I start to see some by now, as my lower back starts feeling better (even though my neck does not 🤷‍♂️). It can be difficult to restrain the desire to free oneself as fast as possible from physical tensions and suffering.

As this is my main occupation (apart from work), and knowing that I am well guided, I am confident it will bear fruits. 🧘‍♂️

I will keep posting the progress I make on the various stretches I do on this thread, and report my physical wellness along. 🙏

Thank you again.

Sylvain.

[Kit_L]

On 6/5/2025 at 5:12 AM, Sylvano said:

As it is difficult for me to open my upper (and "middle") back, I tended to over-arched the lower back, which then made my belly too stretched out to breath in and out comfortably. 

Sylvain, physiologically, and looking at the images you have posted, what you describe is not possible. It may well be your perception of what is happening, of course, and perception is real.

Let me try and show you what I'm talking about. If you sit on the bench as you describe, with an arch in your lower back, make yourself breathe deeply for a moment or two. As you do this, you'll find that while you may feel a slight stretching sensation in the abdominal area, this will not inhibit your capacity to take in a full breath.

On 6/5/2025 at 5:12 AM, Sylvano said:

it can be overwhelming to find the best arrangement

My recommendation is simply to check your posture and correct it extremely slowly and only occasionally. I did this for many years in the beginning of my practice and it ensures that you are awake and actually practising rather than half asleep and dreaming that you are meditating. Correcting your posture should be a gentle, internally smiling kind of practice – the body and the mind are simply doing what they are programmed to do, that's all. This is not a problem unless you make it one – it is only your alignment after all and this cannot be an "overwhelming" thing if you approach it the right way. A light, amused touch is the right orientation here: "there I go, slumping again!". Correct extremely slowly – imagine that if someone were watching you, they would not be able to see you correct your posture because you're moving so slowly. This will heighten your awareness of what's going on inside your body massively. People also heighten the sense of connection you have to all parts of your body and this will all help the project.

Your problem with breathing is explicitly is why I have recommended that you devote some of your practice time to the lying relaxation exercises – I am certain that your deep problem is that you simply cannot relax, even though you might think that you are. As I wrote in that article in the Relaxation section on the Wiki I directed you to, most people think that they're relaxed when they feel relaxed but in fact they are not relaxed at all. You cannot know what deep relaxation is until you've practised and embodied it. Up until that time whatever is your lowest tension state will be interpreted by the brain as being deeply relaxed. Most often this is not the case.

If, while you are sitting and feeling that you are relaxed, if anyone would press into your tummy gently with their fingertips, for example, they would feel tension there. Any tension in the body, which is what started this conversation, will become pain with enough time. You might think these ideas are fanciful, but if you live with someone I know you have a friend who can test this with you, please sit and do what I have suggested here and ask them to gently feel your tummy. It will not be relaxed.

The last thing I will suggest, as a meditator, is that if you cannot sit in the ways that recommended in the monastery, then sit on a chair. Absolutely all of your practices can be done perfectly well sitting on a chair with your feet flat on the ground. I say this as someone who has lead many, many meditation workshops over the years in a number of different countries. And there are always at least half a dozen or a dozen people sitting on chairs in the back of the room because they have some kind of problem or reason why they cannot sit on the floor. The only sutta that explicitly addresses meditation project explicitly states that meditation can be done in all four postures: standing, moving, lying, and sitting. In other words, any position you can put your body in, it is possible to meditate. I assure you this interpretation is accurate.

One of the teachers I worked with, a fully enlightened being, had a congenital hip defect which meant he could not sit on the floor at all – and I quizzed him about this at length over time. He ran into exactly the same disapproval and criticisms for needing to sit on a couch with one leg on the floor and one leg crossed from his teachers, but he persisted in using a couch, and this did not hinder his meditation at all.

 

[Sylvano]

Hi Kit,

Thank you for the fast and developed reply. 

Please give me some time to process all this information and formulate a reply.

With gratitude,

Sylvain

[Kit_L]

Really, no need for a reply—yours are always long and detailed, and must take a long time to write. Instead, please, use that time to do a few of the lying relaxation practices that I mentioned, and after you do a few of these, then please report back as to whether or not anything felt like it changed in your body.

Start here:

https://stretchtherapy.net/relaxation-wiki/

And re-read @Gareth O Connor's remark, and your reply to it. Read the Relaxation article I've linked to, then the Setup instructions, and then select one recording, download it onto whatever you use to listen to music on, turn the phone off, and follow the instructions. Liberation awaits.

[Gareth O Connor]

Regarding relaxation and modern culture...all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.Kit gave me the advice some years ago to smell the roses,we're so invested in performance that we forget to enjoy life

[Sylvano]

(EDIT : This post was not useful nor pleasant so I preferred removing it)

Edited June 17, 2025 by Sylvano
irrelevant

[Gareth O Connor]

Well I was wrong to imply that you were all work and no relaxation

[Sylvano]

Your remark is still relevant Gareth, as I found out that even without a job, it’s hard to remove the tendency to put pressure on getting results, build up expectations, be frustrated with one owns performance, etc…

Thats this particular realisation, when I transformed surfing into another job, that lead me to meditation, to be able to rewrite my own conditioning.

And meditation brought me to my body’s tension, and to Kit’s approach.

sorry if I sounded harsh !

 

[Gareth O Connor]

I'm the same way regarding results.Have you heard of process goals?

[Gareth O Connor]

I'm the same way regarding results.Have you heard of process goals?

"sorry if I sounded harsh".Don't worry about it none of us are Angels 

[Sylvano]

Thank you Gareth, I did not know the term no. I checked online and I think that is what I have been trying to move towards the last few years : find exercises that I know for sure are beneficial, arrange a schedule to find time to practice, find joy in the process.

What are your goals and how did you put the process in place?

 

[Gareth O Connor]

My goals are to improve at running and to loosen my hip flexors.I run twice a week with my local Athletics club,my goal is to build endurance (zone 2,when my heart rate jacks up I walk).For hip flexors I use the quad wall hip flexor stretch 

I'm running an 8k road race on Friday,I'm aiming for 39.30.

And if you find joy in the process isn't that success..."walker there is no pathway you make the path by walking" Antonio Machado,and you'll probably end up reaching your destination as well

[Kit_L]

Try to do the partner hip flexor stretch once a week, and have two or three goes on each side. That will loosen the hip flexors up quicker than anything else you can do. You could use the same wall quad hip flexor stretch as a warmup for that and perhaps just do a single repetition if you can find a partner. Heavier is better, speaking from experience. Don't worry about the partner being too heavy on the back leg – you can push back with your hands if things get too intense very easily.

And don't do the partner version before race day! It can take two or three days to recover from a strong session. But in the end, it will definitely be worth it.