scatic nerve tension restricting hamstring stretching

[JamesFlex87]

what are the best tips for someone with quite a bit of nerve tension in the back of the legs, i dont have sciatica, i also have pretty darn flexible glutes/piriformis, and ive been doing back extension lifts/stretches in the gym without issues. but for the life of me when doing hamstring stretches, i get tingling in my feet which can become painful. i was recommended the front split which doesnt seem to aggravate the foot tingling/pins and needles. I've heard you want to avoid nervy pain but also heard you want to avoid any nervy sensations in the foot when doing hamstring stretches to not further annoy the nerve and make it worse. not fully sure whats right, or what is the best nerve gliding/flossing to do. Also heard its better to do nerve hliding before stretching but also heard one person to say do it after.

my front split seems limited by my hip flexors, i get a sort of sore tugging in the front hip/maybe the front hip tendon. ive only had some luck stretching my hamstring in an isolated position when having my foot really flat and not leaning too much forward, actualy sensation of a hamstring stretch is harder to get though in those positions. no idea what part of my body this nerve tension is stemming from. as i said my glutes are flexible. i dont think my back is that bad, tight hamstrings and calves.

Seems quite a untalked about part of flexibility training elsewhere online. I tried booking to see two flexibility teachers near to me in person but neither did nerve glides or really knew to look out for nervy sensations. i was given straight leg hamstring stretches which caused me pain.

[Kit_L]

Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/@KitLaughlin/search?query=hamstring

All the bent-to-straight leg hamstring exercises will feel quite different to what you've been doing, I suspect. The conventional straight knee hamstring stretches are the least effective way to loosen this muscle and the associated nerves. And read this:

https://stretchtherapy.net/email-newsletter-50/ and try the single-leg dog pose; it is intense, and effective. It is the maximum stretch for the calf muscle and the sciatic nerve. Do read the article and watch the video in the article linked to the article before trying.

The short answer is that the sciatic nerve begins in the spinal cord, runs down the back of the leg, is tethered to the tibial plateau with a ligament loop (after splitting in two just above the knee), crosses behind the ankle, and ends in the toes. There a number of potential restrictions to the sliding of this nerve in its sheet and the sheath within its various constraints. All need to be loosened.

The calf muscle is the most common area of restriction. This is why we recommend stretching this muscle with the knee held straight before doing any straight-leg hamstring stretches. There is a chapter in Stretching & Flexibility where this is explored more deeply.

Do let us know how you go. And welcome!

[JamesFlex87]

Many thanks Kit really appreciate your lengthy feedback on this!! This is something i've been really struggling with for a while really on my left leg, the right one i feel has made progress. I've been playing around with it all since reading it.

I find with that single leg dog pose i get a very quick onset of nerve pain in the calf on the left leg, eeen just entering that position is tough on the left side. Theres a calf machine at my gym which has you lying back digonally and i find if i lean forward when using that for a calf stretch i get nervy sensations. Straight leg calf stretches seem to be the only thing doable or a lunging calf stretch.

Some added context i had what i think is called a knee flexion contracture where i was tight at the back of the knee where i couldnt straighten my knee easily. Thats improved a bit but i think its where maybe my nerve gets caught, and perhaps is my place of limitation with stretching. I say this because i tried your lunging hamstring stretch and i just struggled to get a feeling of a hamstring stretch, and when i tested to see if my hamstring had that improvement of flexibility you get temproarily after and it didn't. It just doesn't seem to stretch where i'm most restricted - and i think therefor isn't letting my get a stretch in that position.

Do you know of a good way to stretch the back of the knee which wont annoy the nerve?

One thing i haven't been able to find a absolute answer for online is if i stretch, get a ROM improvement in after, BUT feel my feet tingle or feel a bit painful after - is this a net loss benefit wise, like does that mean the stretch wont have helped or even might tighten thing ups more. OR is it expected to feel some sort of discomfort after? Especially where someone like me struggled to get a good stretch it would seem without annoying it. I didn't feel it after your lunging stretch for the hamstring but yeah i just didn't notice a change in ROM and wasn't able to feel the stretch. Other typical hamstring positions i can get a change but my feet will be flared up after. I saw a FRC coach who really didn't seem to have much awareness of the nerves effect or input on stretching. 

Before i was doing a front split for my hamstring, someone suggested that elsewhere and it didn't annoy my nerve but i found my front hip tendon as the limitating factor, it would get sore and i just couldn't find a good hamstring stretch. 

I think my calf and/or the back of he knee is likely the issue, that and the hamstring have historically been tight. I can get into a deep pigeon pose, bringing the head forward with no nerve issues.

 

All the best

James

 

[Kit_L]

15 hours ago, JamesFlex87 said:

Do you know of a good way to stretch the back of the knee which wont annoy the nerve?

This is tricky James without actually being able to help you hands-on. I did design a brachialis stretch for a friend while on a workshop, and I will link to that below, but my suggestion would be to ask someone to help you stretch the back of the knee by putting your heel on a book of about an inch or so height. Sit on the floor for a moment and hyperextend your knee on the 'good leg' side. I imagine that your heel comes off the ground about 2 inches. This is the normal amount of hyperextension – and when I say normal I also mean it normative sense – that this amount is desirable. The problem leg will be much less, I suspect.

Have a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xajg71NUg6s

What my student did there was do a contraction in the fully straight position – at least it's as straight as he could get that arm – and then while straightening his arm himself, I leant on the back of his elbow to help that final position. The change was immediate. I suggest that you try something similar, but use the hamstring and the calf muscle to try to bend the leg from whatever straight position you can get into. Relax completely.

Then use your quadriceps muscle to try to hyperextend the back of the knee a little bit, and see how that feels. Then as a second movement, and on a second breath in and out, ask your friend to lean on your thigh, not on the kneecap but just above the knee and use the quadriceps to try and get a bit more straightening to happen. Now you'll have to be careful here, and make sure you go slowly and gently and make sure that your partner doesn't lean too much weight too quickly, but you should feel something strong and interesting behind the knee and this could loosen up whatever facial restriction you have to the gliding of the nerve.

Something else to try would be single leg standing calf raise machine stretches – use as much weight as you can handle to do very small contractions in the fully stretch position, and make sure that your knee is pressed as straight as you can get it, and then use the weight to let the heel be pressed down as far as possible. Again allow that relaxation and stretch to occur slowly so that you're on the complete control of it and try to keep the knee completely straight. This two will work on that same tissue area behind the knee including a small muscle called popliteus. If you consult your anatomy text, you will see that the sciatic nerve bifurcates above the knee and facial adhesions can occur anywhere there.

Speaking more generally now, providing the nervous sensation that you get is not too painful and too uncomfortable, there is no doubt that the only way to get that nerve to glide more is to do what you've been doing and just keep going. These things take quite awhile to change if you think about it – you've spent your whole life getting to this point. We can't expect massive change quickly, nor is that desirable in my view.

Perhaps you could take a picture of both legs in the hyperextended position – that is sit on the floor with your legs out in front of you and straightening both legs as much as you can and let's see the difference between the two sides.

15 hours ago, JamesFlex87 said:

OR is it expected to feel some sort of discomfort after?

Some, yes, but sometimes it can be really hard to distinguish between a new awareness in an area and what you are calling discomfort. Try what I suggest and get back to us.

[JamesFlex87]

Thanks again Kit! I recorded myself doing, but i also got someone to actually measure it for me (was wearing socks - maybe not the most accurate), but my better right leg was able to come about 0.5cm off the ground, i can lift this leg high in a hamstring test notably better, i also noticed calf flexibility wise, lifting and pointing the foot its better (despite doing equal stretching on it). My left, worser leg, was at best 0.25 a cm off the ground, my sock was grazing the ground mostly. So imagine the above measurements could for sure cause a restriction.

Thanks for the stretching idea, i will work frequently on stretching this area for a bit, then go back to trying hamstring stretches again. I'm hoping it will allow me to feel and get a stretch in lunging hamstring positions. I guess it would make sense that stretching with a straight leg created a decent stretch reflex response because it is stretching the back of the knee but of course it would annoy my nerve a lot (itchy quite painful tingling after I tried with a coach i saw in London). I will keep at it with the straight leg calf stretches too. That calf machine idea is good i will take a crack at that, many thanks!

 

[andyfitz]

On 3/11/2025 at 5:57 AM, Kit_L said:

This is tricky James without actually being able to help you hands-on. I did design a brachialis stretch for a friend while on a workshop, and I will link to that below, but my suggestion would be to ask someone to help you stretch the back of the knee by putting your heel on a book of about an inch or so height. Sit on the floor for a moment and hyperextend your knee on the 'good leg' side. I imagine that your heel comes off the ground about 2 inches. This is the normal amount of hyperextension – and when I say normal I also mean it normative sense – that this amount is desirable. The problem leg will be much less, I suspect.

Have a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xajg71NUg6s

What my student did there was do a contraction in the fully straight position – at least it's as straight as he could get that arm – and then while straightening his arm himself, I leant on the back of his elbow to help that final position. The change was immediate. I suggest that you try something similar, but use the hamstring and the calf muscle to try to bend the leg from whatever straight position you can get into. Relax completely.

Then use your quadriceps muscle to try to hyperextend the back of the knee a little bit, and see how that feels. Then as a second movement, and on a second breath in and out, ask your friend to lean on your thigh, not on the kneecap but just above the knee and use the quadriceps to try and get a bit more straightening to happen. Now you'll have to be careful here, and make sure you go slowly and gently and make sure that your partner doesn't lean too much weight too quickly, but you should feel something strong and interesting behind the knee and this could loosen up whatever facial restriction you have to the gliding of the nerve.

Something else to try would be single leg standing calf raise machine stretches – use as much weight as you can handle to do very small contractions in the fully stretch position, and make sure that your knee is pressed as straight as you can get it, and then use the weight to let the heel be pressed down as far as possible. Again allow that relaxation and stretch to occur slowly so that you're on the complete control of it and try to keep the knee completely straight. This two will work on that same tissue area behind the knee including a small muscle called popliteus. If you consult your anatomy text, you will see that the sciatic nerve bifurcates above the knee and facial adhesions can occur anywhere there.

Speaking more generally now, providing the nervous sensation that you get is not too painful and too uncomfortable, there is no doubt that the only way to get that nerve to glide more is to do what you've been doing and just keep going. These things take quite awhile to change if you think about it – you've spent your whole life getting to this point. We can't expect massive change quickly, nor is that desirable in my view.

Perhaps you could take a picture of both legs in the hyperextended position – that is sit on the floor with your legs out in front of you and straightening both legs as much as you can and let's see the difference between the two sides.

Some, yes, but sometimes it can be really hard to distinguish between a new awareness in an area and what you are calling discomfort. Try what I suggest and get back to us.

Hi Kit, 

just wondering about the 2 inches of hyper extension that the knee is capable of. In my experience, even one inch would be well above average.. That’s not to say that 2 inches wouldn’t be available, should all restrictions be removed.

would I be correct in saying that it’s not just the hamstrings but the available ankle dorsiflexion is major barrier for this movement..

 

My own left can hyperextend about 1/2 an inch, but the right is only able to lift about 1 centimetre off the floor. Could this also be a limitation from scar tissue or even boney deposits occupying joint space.. 
 

It really feels like I am restricted by insufficient dorsiflexion also, more so than hamstrings.

Also, I would feel that I am unable to hyper extend at the elbows either. From observation of clients it seems the knees and elbows are in sync, as in its unlikely someone would have the a ability to hyperextend at the elbows and not to hyperextend at the knees.

 

Always grateful for your insight 🙂

 

Andrew.

 

[Kit_L]

Just uploaded a quick image of my own knee hypertension, which when I measured it (although I couldn't take a photograph of it at the same time), was about 30–35 mm, so well over an inch.

8 hours ago, andyfitz said:

would I be correct in saying that it’s not just the hamstrings but the available ankle dorsiflexion is major barrier for this movement..

If you're talking about hyper-extension at the knee joint, no. And it's not about hamstrings or other muscles, necessarily – the knee itself, in its capacity to hyperextend can have ligamentous and other limitations (why I mentioned popliteus above). This is why I have suggested to James that he try that technique to improve hypertension, just a bit. And don't forget that it's easy to have too much hypertension – many young dancers who have been poorly trained have too much hyperextension, and that definitely can weaken the knee joint.

[JamesFlex87]

One way i test my back knee tension currently is in a standing position i tighten/ use my quad to make my leg is straight, whenever i do this my knee moves back into a straight position for the leg because its naturally bent forward. After i stretch the amount my knee bends back is reduced quite a lot. And walking on my feet after doing the stretch my leg feels more straight and that the weight is more distrubted across the foot. 

I got my mum to do this test and her knee didn't move at all. She can lift her feet off the ground in that lying down position about a good inch, left leg being a bit less, but it was noticeably higher then mine but not the full 2 inches.

Also to update you kit/people of the thread, i found simply doing a one leg calf stretch (similiar to how you suggested on the gym machine) but making sure im straightening my knee out by using my quad to keep my leg straight as i go down into the stretched position (not while in it) stretches that back knee nicely. Prior to me doing this when doing straight leg calf stretches... i believe i was naturally keeping my knee slightly bent forward, trying to go deep as i can getting an upper calf muscle stretch but not addressing the back knee.

It takes using my quad and ideally lunging forward on the opposite leg as counter force - doing this in stairs is easiest i find with my counter force leg being positioned two steps higher in a lunged position). I'm currently doing two sets of two minute stretches for the back knee/calf two days on, one day off.

[Kit_L]

11 hours ago, JamesFlex87 said:

stretches that back knee nicely.

Excellent. Have two days off, instead of one. I wonder if rolling the back of the knee in the seated position before and after the stretch could help? Keel going!

[JamesFlex87]

2 hours ago, Kit_L said:

Excellent. Have two days off, instead of one. I wonder if rolling the back of the knee in the seated position before and after the stretch could help? Keel going!

With the hamstring stretches should i do it 2 days on 2 days off too? Or is that just for the back knee stretch? I'm very motivated but wish to optimise improvement, sounds like enough rest comes with that. Thanks!

[Kit_L]

For most exercising, one day exercising and two days off is a very good place to start the process of calibration – and what that involves is to determine what you feel like after that day's exercise. These things are not rigid; they're not set in stone; and they change constantly. Learning how to feel what's happening in your body is a great gift to give yourself.

[JamesFlex87]

On 3/16/2025 at 8:48 AM, Kit_L said:

For most exercising, one day exercising and two days off is a very good place to start the process of calibration – and what that involves is to determine what you feel like after that day's exercise. These things are not rigid; they're not set in stone; and they change constantly. Learning how to feel what's happening in your body is a great gift to give yourself.

Hi Kit, Hasn't been long but on a positive note i find after doing the back knee stretching my nerve glides are much better and also my foot isn't nervy on a straight leg straight where my leg is on a table.

However i've noticed my hamstrings have actually i feel almost gotten a bit tighter. And i dont feel the ROM improvement after doing it. And a bit sore sometimes on the left leg after stretching. When i do the front split or the lunging hamstring stretch i find it hard to feel the hamstring. An old mentor of mine would of advised to do more of a global hamstring stretch i think like a two leg forward fold holding a weight. Does that make any sense or? I noticed i get a better ROM improvement from doing that stretch. Should i focus that then go back to the lunging hamstring stretches?

I must admit i often start ina  front split then go into that lunging hamstring stretch, so maybe the front split is causing some of that issue rather. But i do find two legged hamstring stretches, folding forward, do seem to get a different response. Right now my hamstring range must be lik 45 degrees on the lying back position leg up.

 

[Kit_L]

I have to be brief today, James, because my computer is at the bottom of the sea after my boat sank. So I have to use the iPad which is a hopeless interface for me.

Do the back of the knee work # first, then the bent leg hamstring stretch that I recommended second and stop doing the front splits work for a week or two and see what happens. When you over-challenge any muscle group there is always the possibility that protective tension will manifest because it feels like it’s under siege. If you do the bent leg stretch properly you’ll be stretching the muscles and nerves in a completely different way than when you do the front splits exercise. In my experience, front splits is an advanced exercise and you’re not ready for that just yet.

[JamesFlex87]

9 hours ago, Kit_L said:

I have to be brief today, James, because my computer is at the bottom of the sea after my boat sank. So I have to use the iPad which is a hopeless interface for me.

Do the back of the knee work # first, then the bent leg hamstring stretch that I recommended second and stop doing the front splits work for a week or two and see what happens. When you over-challenge any muscle group there is always the possibility that protective tension will manifest because it feels like it’s under siege. If you do the bent leg stretch properly you’ll be stretching the muscles and nerves in a completely different way than when you do the front splits exercise. In my experience, front splits is an advanced exercise and you’re not ready for that just yet.

Will do, and many thanks for the response, sorry to hear about your computer and boat!

Funnily enough my Dad has sciatic pain (not just nerve tension whcih i think is a minor form of it i guess) and has seen various people for it, i got him to do the test for the back of the knee and his is notably worse then mine, i mean he cant staighten out it legs nor lift his foot off the ground lying on his back. i've got him doing the back knee stretch too. Which is basically the one you suggested with the gym equipment, but using the staircase at home for a calf stretch in a lunged position (non stretched leg 2-3 steps up) straightening the back of the leg using the quad. His left calf is visibly smaller which is his tighter side. It seem a very undertested/looked over thing. Because i saw him do a calf stretch, a standing one, and like me with my back knee tension you default to bending the knee because it makes it easier and your used to having a bent knee. He was having people suggest him to buy these expensive insoles to improve his gait, but i told him and he felt afterward, walking feels better after stretching the back of the knee if its tight, the leg feels completely different, it feels straight like it should.

Might it be ok throwing in the other one i mentioned which is basically an elephant walk providing it doesn't tickle up my nerves after? I do it holding like a low weight too. 

[Gareth O Connor]

Sorry to hear about the computer and the boat Kit,I'd say there was valuable material on it

[Kit_L]

@Gareth O Connor: no worries, everything backed up. Lost all my tools though – two big bags and a metal toolbox. Oh well the virtues of minimisation and downsizing!

@JamesFlex87: I can’t get the iPad to quote your reply back to you, but the last paragraph’s question is yes to both of those things. 

[JamesFlex87]

Giving an update, my back knee tension and ability to lift my foot off the ground in that lying down position to test back knee tightness has defintely improved. I found doing the back knee stretch made a big difference for me then being able to do nerve gliding without pins and needles, and then also allowed me to do hamstring stretches beyond just ones in a split position.

I believe the isometrics i was doing in the split position was likely contrbiuting towards me getting sore after the stretch. I threw those in to be thorough and i kind of enjoyed doing them, passive end range isometrics but i dont think my hamstrings were ready for that.

The issue i've ran into with the lunging hamstring stretch, which also occurs in the front split, is i get front hip pinching in my back leg (leg where the hip flexor is being stretched). Its become a real limiter for stretching in those lunged positions.

Do you know a workaround for this any chance Kit? My internal hip rotation is about 15-20 degrees, i dont know if that can play a factor. I actually just dug out an old hip scan i got 2 years ago. It came back clear aside from the below sentence, i dont know if a minor osseous bump is enough to stop me making progress with my goal of a decent front split.

[Kit_L]

9 hours ago, JamesFlex87 said:

i get front hip pinching in my back leg (leg where the hip flexor is being stretched). Its become a real limiter for stretching in those lunged positions.

In the lunge position (and its variations) we are always playing hip flexor tension against hamstring tension; if we lean forwards, hamstring tension increases; and vice versa if we lean back. In any lunge, there is always tension in both groups: this is intentional.

The reduce the effect in the back leg, though, once in position, use the HFs to draw the back leg's knee forward a little—this will decrease the tension in the back leg. Leaning forwards with a straight back can be added (this will further decrease tension in the back leg and simultaneously decrease tension in the top of the back leg. Play with these, and please report back.