Procrastination, Consistency & Motivation

[Kit_L]

If you are following the system, in either approach to SS, you'll be doing contractions at end ROM, so you will develop strength there. If you develop strength at end ROM, I think the risk to the ligaments @Jim Pickles talks about is minimal. This is not the case for the yoga approach to SS, which, usually, is long, held, relaxed stretches at end ROM with no contractions – this definitely can lengthen those ligaments. In all my experience over a very long period of time, both in martial arts and in the world of athletes, I have never seen anybody hurt their knees doing side splits, as long as they were strengthening at the same time. Contractions at end ROM do this perfectly.

13 hours ago, daisysheldon said:

How do you pick which type to train for? 

What Jim said, plus (my 2¢'s worth), whichever gets you lower. In my own journey to side splits, I used both approaches and simply did both at each session and selected the one that gave me the greatest depth and felt the best at the time. This can change over time as well.

Having said all of that, external rotation and maximum force contractions (after doing both these for a year or so with less force, of course) worked the best for me by far. When I say "maximum force contractions", I mean with legs well apart, supporting all of one's body's weight for time, and once maximum depth was reached for that day, then maximum contractions at that new point. I usually did five or six repetitions of the exercise—and as soon as I stopped going deeper, that session ended.

In the actual set itself, start with more gentle contractions and slowly increase until you feel your giving it your best. Sometimes I even had a partner hold my thighs in position while I did those maximum contractions because I got so strong at doing these my body weight was nowhere near enough forced to work against. It will take considerable time to get to that point, though. Don't be in a rush here.

The deeper reality that is at work here is that until the body feels that it's strong enough to feel completely safe in the full side splits position, no matter where that is for you, the apprehension reflex* will stop you from relaxing fully in the end position. When you're strong enough, then you'll be able to relax fully.

*search for this term here

[daisysheldon]

On 2/1/2025 at 8:21 PM, Kit_L said:

It looks similar, but in the LL, the front leg's knee angle is significantly more open; this changes the leverages on both legs significantly. The LL is more of a strength exercise for most people, and this additional tension can be very effective in helping you to become more flexible. The back leg's foot will adapt to the effort, in time. If you can't support the position, you've gone too deep—so come out, rest, and try a second time, and support yourself as I suggested to take the balancing dimension out, and try a second time, not going as deep.

Session 1: Long lunge, concentrating on the back leg x 3; your choice of a quad-hip flexor stretch; passive back bend over something, half bridge (floor back bend while holding ankles); strongest version of the cobra pose. Can you do any form of the full bridge? This could take anywhere from 15' all the way to 45'.

Session 2: Wide-leg elephant walk (like the LL, THE pose to master for the pancake), the tailor pose, then standing side splits (feet forward, flat on floor first attempt, then a second try with legs fully externally rotated (so only your heels are pressing on the floor; hold yourself off the floor using tension in all working muscles for time, then try for maximum depth while relaxing as much as you can. Around 30'. 

Repeating any exercise will get you deeper in that session.

Try this for six weeks, take pictures so we can see where you're at, then we'll change the exercises.

These are simply suggestions—you have not mentioned where you are on the flexibility spectrum, what else is happening in your life, or how much time you can devote reliably to your practise, so we're flying blind here!

On the other four days, walk for 30' or do any of the related limbering exercises; one day off. Relaxation practise.

Hey Kit!

So here is my around 6 week update...

I feel like there isn't much visible progress, which feels disheartening with the time put in to stretching.

This is where I have been for a while in this stuck place. 

Would really appreciate your advice on how to progress and what to do next.

[Kit_L]

I can only do a brief reply today, Daisy, as I lost my computer when the boat went down last Sunday. New computer comes this week.   
 

Two things I know immediately looking at your images: there is no doubt that your quads and hip flexors are extremely tight – there is literally zero extension happening at your hip joint. When you add that to the excellent flexibility you have in your lumbar spine and your thoracic spine, you have just identified how your body cheats in this movement! This is not a problem.

Go to our YouTube channel, and search on “quad and hip flexor” – you will see that there are a number of exercises there that stretch both end of the muscle called rectus femoris at the same time and the organisation of the exercises stops the lumbar spine extending instead of that area stretching. Please let me know if you can find these. In one session I would try two or three of them and try to let that front top area of your thigh relax as much as possible. 

We have had many very flexible people on workshops have exactly the same problem. The key is to lock the pelvis in a position, and then you can actually stretch this area.

The second thing is that six weeks is no time at all in the stretching world. However, once you find the correct exercise for your particular body body, then it will unlock fairly quickly.

[Gareth O Connor]

As regards no tangible progress,what are you looking to get out of stretching?

[Matt Chung]

> As regards no tangible progress,what are you looking to get out of stretching?

Not the OP and will be curious as to how they respond. However, I have found myself asking this question about my own (stretching) practice lately and I think my relationship has evolved (and will continue to evolve) overtime. A little under a year ago, my interest in stretching was sparked by witnessing a dancer (ex of mine, now friend) move with such ease and grace and she had encouraged me to explore stretching and Pilates. My intention with stretching started off as a means to an end: move my limbs in a way that I found beautiful, floorwork, etc.

Almost immediately after starting my journey, I quickly recognized that my body was in quite a bit of pain — probably for many years – from a stiff neck, restricted shoulder, and more. And so, the goal shifted away from obtaining skills for performing flashy movements but to healing my body. Repairing my body and nervous system still plays a big role however my relationship with stretching is both a tool for introspection, a spiritual practice ... and ....

I recently learned, after reading Oliver Burkeman's 4,000 weeks, of the term "atelic activity": the value isn't derived from its telos, or ultimate aim.

Long story short, as someone who has been goal oriented and future focused for most of my life (and still aware of those tendencies as of late), I'm finding that stretching itself can be an atelic activity, that you can do it for its own sake. Nothing more.

[Jim Pickles]

Stretching (i.e. physically changing the anatomy of your body when it is no longer growing) is a very slow process in an adult*. We are not talking about weeks, or months, but years, and even decades. So you have to enjoy the PROCESS, and not just be focussed on final results. Having said that, interim stages of progress are to be welcomed, and used as a sign of great endorsement of what you are doing.

So I see your thoracic flexibility has improved enormously. A very good sign.

Another comment - I wonder why you are balancing on your heel in the high lunge. You could try it with your foot flat on the floor. This means that you will be able to focus the muscle activity and the relaxation and stretch exactly where it is needed, so as to stretch the front of the hip of the leg going back, without distractions.

Jim.

*Though there are a few exceptions.

[Gareth O Connor]

Burkemann is a good writer he has another good book on happiness the antidote to positive thinking for those who can't stand it.

I came across the word autotelic when reading a book by Pat Farenga based on John Holt's theory of unschooling,he was saying that learning can be its own reward rather than learning to get a good mark in an examination

[daisysheldon]

On 4/3/2025 at 8:33 PM, Gareth O Connor said:

As regards no tangible progress,what are you looking to get out of stretching?

I am looking to get my front, side split and pancake, as well as improve my back flexibility (not to necessarily do a wheel pose, but more to help my movement as a dancer)

 

[daisysheldon]

On 4/4/2025 at 3:29 PM, Jim Pickles said:

Stretching (i.e. physically changing the anatomy of your body when it is no longer growing) is a very slow process in an adult*. We are not talking about weeks, or months, but years, and even decades. So you have to enjoy the PROCESS, and not just be focussed on final results. Having said that, interim stages of progress are to be welcomed, and used as a sign of great endorsement of what you are doing.

So I see your thoracic flexibility has improved enormously. A very good sign.

Another comment - I wonder why you are balancing on your heel in the high lunge. You could try it with your foot flat on the floor. This means that you will be able to focus the muscle activity and the relaxation and stretch exactly where it is needed, so as to stretch the front of the hip of the leg going back, without distractions.

Jim.

*Though there are a few exceptions.

Thank you for your comment Jim.

That is humbling to hear about the realistic timescales to expect as an adult.
I do struggle to enjoy the process... any tips very welcomed!

Thats good you see progress!

I am balancing on my heel in the high lunge because it is what Kit says to do in one of the videos (posted in this thread) - not sure why, but maybe I can try flat on the floor too.

[daisysheldon]

On 3/30/2025 at 10:47 PM, Kit_L said:

I can only do a brief reply today, Daisy, as I lost my computer when the boat went down last Sunday. New computer comes this week.   
 

Two things I know immediately looking at your images: there is no doubt that your quads and hip flexors are extremely tight – there is literally zero extension happening at your hip joint. When you add that to the excellent flexibility you have in your lumbar spine and your thoracic spine, you have just identified how your body cheats in this movement! This is not a problem.

Go to our YouTube channel, and search on “quad and hip flexor” – you will see that there are a number of exercises there that stretch both end of the muscle called rectus femoris at the same time and the organisation of the exercises stops the lumbar spine extending instead of that area stretching. Please let me know if you can find these. In one session I would try two or three of them and try to let that front top area of your thigh relax as much as possible. 

We have had many very flexible people on workshops have exactly the same problem. The key is to lock the pelvis in a position, and then you can actually stretch this area.

The second thing is that six weeks is no time at all in the stretching world. However, once you find the correct exercise for your particular body body, then it will unlock fairly quickly.

Thank you for your response Kit.
I'm sorry to hear about the boat and your computer - I hope the new one gets sorted soon for you.

I have added in the quad and hip flexor stretches to my practise.
Thats good to know realistically in terms of timescales to expect.

Would you suggest to keep going with these exercises for the part 1 or change them?

ie. Session 1: Long lunge, concentrating on the back leg x 3; your choice of a quad-hip flexor stretch; passive back bend over something, strongest version of the cobra pose, full bridge pose. 

[Jim Pickles]

"front, side split and pancake, as well as improve my back flexibility"

I presume you have seen the videos that Kit has, many now available for free (there are lots on Youtube). I thought the Mastery seires was now available for free but I see that it is still paid-for - but this has the best series of graded exercises for your goals (and for other goals too). You really need to do a wide range of exercises, not just the ones that are most directly targeting what is needed for your goals. This is because there are lots of other little structures (muscles, fascia, ligaments, etc) involved in every movement and you need to explore those to get optimal flexibility for your main goals. It is also more motivating to try lots of different exercises.

For those goals, you should certainly give prominence to (among all the other exercises and the variants) hamstring stretches, hip flexor stretches, quad stretches, tailor pose, pancake (preparation), spinal rotation (loosens up the spine), passive backbending over support, cobra, wheel. As you are doing.

For me, I started stretching in my 40s from a very tight start. Now front splits are routine without a warm-up, I've never QUITE achieved a straight-line straddle (a few cm out on a good day), backbends have always been good, pancake now OK. Front splits, straddle and pancake took about 10 years. Just letting you know. I'm coming up to 80 and do all those stretches (and final positions) every couple of days.

While nothing can beat Kit and Oliva's Mastery Series, you can also see for free parts of the routines I use in my own teaching for legs - go to my webpage www.jimpflex.com.au, go to Class Videos (https://www.jimpflex.com.au/classvideos.html) and look for Legs 1 and Legs 2. These are follow-along videos which will give you my routines for front splits preparation, straddle preparation, and pancake preparation. They are intended for students with the degree of flexibility of those in my own class, so mostly the videos dont show final completed final poses (splits etc). However they can be easily extended. Most of the exercises are taken from the ST program.

Jim.

[Gareth O Connor]

Do you feel good in your body?

[daisysheldon]

5 hours ago, Gareth O Connor said:

Do you feel good in your body?

I feel restricted when I dance 

[Kit_L]

@daisysheldon: do yourself a favour, and read this:

https://stretchtherapy.net/relaxation-wiki/

Nothing will affect your dance, and the experience of being in your body, more profoundly than learning how to relax deeply and to carry that experience into daily life (and dance!). 

All the recordings are free. Many users have reported to us that doing these practises daily were the most significant changes they have ever made in their lives. The same practice will have a profound effect on your quest to become more flexible too.

[daisysheldon]

30 minutes ago, Kit_L said:

@daisysheldon: do yourself a favour, and read this:

https://stretchtherapy.net/relaxation-wiki/

Nothing will affect your dance, and the experience of being in your body, more profoundly than learning how to relax deeply and to carry that experience into daily life (and dance!). 

All the recordings are free. Many users have reported to us that doing these practises daily were the most significant changes they have ever made in their lives. The same practice will have a profound effect on your quest to become more flexible too.

Thank you Kit.

yes that makes sense but I want to specifically unlock more flexibility to widen my scope of movement accessible to me as a performer. 

i actually purchased your stretching mastery programme - bit confused as to whether to follow that or your youtube videos? 
 

 

 

[Kit_L]

I understand your goals re. flexibility, @daisysheldon, but the relaxation dimension helps both the acquisition of flexibility that you have stated that you need, and the much wider goal of feeling comfortable in your body, especially as your performing. Not to mention the wider again effects on the whole of life.

As for your question about the mastery program, it is more a recipe list designed to let you target specific flexibility problems, assuming you have done all of the Master the Squat work and know your body from following those instructions. Most of the YouTube videos are both instructional and follow along. There is no conflict between these two sources.

For you, specifically, now, the quadriceps and hip flexor exercises need to be your priority and you can use either the mastery course as a source or the YouTube videos to guide you. There is no contradiction between these two. If I have not understood what you were trying to get across, please just ask any question you want.