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Posted

In addition to the physical based activities I share, I'm going to try to also share some things I'm learning (both on the forum, and other resources) for both myself and perhaps for others who may stumble on this thread.  I often like just randomly stepping through threads on this forum and the biggest takeaways come from other members; in this scenario, this user shared an article on "internal performance" vs "external performance." Earlier this week, I shared how I "pushed" myself during the hamstring lunge C+R. I felt that this "push" differs to my previous attempts over the years, where I did NOT listen to my body when it was sending me pain signals. The sensations during this hamstring lunge was ... a different type of ... signal. My body was resisting but not in a painful way. For this reason, I felt comfortable going beyond my current level.

Anyways, from the YouTube video that was shared, I extracted my favorite snippet:

Quote

Pain is a signal that tells you maybe you're not quite progressed for this yet. And you can make progress, real people can make progress often best, by not going to a pain that is orthopedic or neuromuscular related. There's very much a difference between the sensation of pushing one's self when progressed properly and its a challenge for them VERSUS this is locally wrong for you. You are NOT ready for this. This is going to back fire... but we are good at ignoring all those things.

 

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Posted

Second iteration of my own customized, stretching routine. Focus was: shoulders, neck, hip flexors (cue: square them hips!)

Also, although not visible to naked eye, and although there isn't a visible (if so, perhaps not perceivable) increased range of motion (ROM) in my (injured) right shoulder, it FEELS difference. In fact, the exercise where you place the arm stretched out along the wall, the arm creating a 45 degree angle, was not a position I could hold, let alone get into. But now, I can. So progress is happening.

And though not obsessive about tracking progression of shoulder rehabilitation, I am still once every few weeks comparing my shoulder ROM for this particular exercise (below). On the left was 23 days ago. I'm still feel pain in the anterior part of shoulder however that sensation is definitely reducing.

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Recap GIF

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Posted

@Matt Chung: have you seen the rotator cuff exercises on our YT channel? The supraspinatus one has a strengthening component that might help. That pain you feel "in the anterior part of shoulder" most likely is the long head of biceps (and doing that wall stretch with the arm at 45° is likely why that pain is diminishing). The next time you're doing that 'arm up behind the back' stretch that you show with the band, before the stretch is felt make sure that you pull that right shoulder back as far as you can and lift the chest – this will put that anterior part of the shoulder in a better position for the supraspinatus stretch. Pec. minor tightness on the L shoulder is what's causing the scapula to wing off the ribcage, too. There is a solo pec. minor stretch on the YT channel too (Olivia demoing) and an excellent partner one done with a stick that this change the position of that shoulder quickly.

None of this is a problem – it just takes awhile to work out the fine details. Keep going!

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Posted
On 9/16/2024 at 11:27 PM, Kit_L said:

@Matt Chung: have you seen the rotator cuff exercises on our YT channel? The supraspinatus one has a strengthening component that might help. That pain you feel "in the anterior part of shoulder" most likely is the long head of biceps (and doing that wall stretch with the arm at 45° is likely why that pain is diminishing). The next time you're doing that 'arm up behind the back' stretch that you show with the band, before the stretch is felt make sure that you pull that right shoulder back as far as you can and lift the chest – this will put that anterior part of the shoulder in a better position for the supraspinatus stretch. Pec. minor tightness on the L shoulder is what's causing the scapula to wing off the ribcage, too. There is a solo pec. minor stretch on the YT channel too (Olivia demoing) and an excellent partner one done with a stick that this change the position of that shoulder quickly.

None of this is a problem – it just takes awhile to work out the fine details. Keep going!

Thanks for the reminder @Kit_L. Yes, I did check out the rotator cuff exercises. I tried the supraspintaus one yesterday and while I will give it a second/third shot, I think (for now), it's not an exercise that's targeting the pain that I'm feeling. I actually think the stretch with arm at 45 degrees is (as you mentioned) the one that is creating significant relief. And I did find the minor stretch YT video and once I find a nearby playground with equipment, will give it a crack. Until then, I think I'm in good position with these exercises (also I been using some of the stick based exercises from the mastery program and those are also adding huge relief as well).

Posted

During this session (yesterday), I targeted hamstrings, squatted for a few minutes, continued with toe yoga, (not featured) walk on gravel. I keep saying this (over and over) but literally my biggest enemy (hamstrings) have become my best friend. From sciatic nerve pain (which of course hasn't completely disappeared) to feeling elated when in the stretch. Deeply spiritual.

 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Matt Chung said:

Deeply spiritual.

It is, indeed. Thanks for this thread.

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Posted

Day 127

Target muscles: shoulders (again, focus is on rehabbing right rotator cuff) and old foe new friend hamstring + forward fold

Oh also this morning, while walking the pups, walked on gravel. Though I'm a little bit less sensitive to the gravel, I do find larger sized rocks MUCH more challenging to walk over. Though I'm about 6 weeks into walking on gravel, it feels as though I've hit a plateau in terms of desensitization however if there's anything I learned through this stretching journey, it's likely that the change(s) is/are not perceivable. So. Continuing.

Shoulder rotator cuff and hamstring progression

  • Attempted Kit's recommendation of pulling the shoulder back and lifting the stretch does change the sensation of the stretch
  • Reading back at his comments, unsure what "winging the ribcage" means

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Hamstring and Forward Fold Progression

  • Sometimes I get ahead of myself and during the hamstring stretch, I want to square the hips. However, I remind myself that the focus isn't the hip flexors (of the opposite leg) it's the hamstring (of the front leg). So I let that thought go and refocus on the hamstring
  • With the forward fold, I'm constantly at the razor's edge and I actually get quite excited to stretch the lower back now. Though I am rooted in the progress, the journey, I visualize a future (not too distant) where I can actually forward fold, a feat I've wanted to accomplish for many many many moons.

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Posted

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This is what I meant by "winging off the ribcage" and why lifting the chest and pulling the shoulder back makes the stretch so much more effective. Basically, the body avoids any discomfort with any mechanisms it has at its disposal. The position the shoulder blade is in now is showing you what that adaptation momentarily looks like. Setting the shoulder blade firmly on the ribcage and holding it there (as best you can) make the exercise target the desired restriction.

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Posted

  

On 9/19/2024 at 9:23 AM, oliviaa said:

The reason for starting with range of motion is because if you try to work on strength when there is restricted range of motion/lack of connection to how to activate a muscle, you are liable to 1) recruit muscles other than what you are wanting to target to do the work, and/or 2) injure yourself. The flexibility work also enables you to feel individual muscles: once that has happened, then you can recruit them for the strength work.

Was stepping through another thread and appreciate Olivia's explanation above because previously, though I am a big fan of Pilates, I (temporarily) redirected strictly strengthening towards stretching. Initially, my thought was that if I don't have the range of motion (ROM), then I'm only strengthening the muscles in that limited range. Also, I started become aware of certain compensatory movements due to restrictions in certain muscles. For example, during the (lack of a better word) "donkey king" Pilates exercise, my hips were rotating; that is, I wasn't squaring my hips. And I felt that my loosening up the quads first, it would make the entire movements a bit easier. At least that was my thought.

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Posted

Not sure if this happens to anyone else but over the past 2 weeks, been having dreams where I'm practicing my stretches. I just woke up from a dream where I was practicing my forward fold. I ask myself: what's change recently? Could a number of things. Up tick in meditation practice (in addition to advice given on the forum to others as well as myself, I am reading several sports psychology books and the central theme of all of them is this: calming your nervous system), stretching before sleeping (I normally stretch after a hot shower in the AM before I get to "work"). Whatever the case, just find this all very interesting.

Anyways, back to stretching.

As mentioned above, last night, I loosened up my hamstrings with the lunge position, followed by a few elephant walks. Slowly but surely, the "IT band" pain/sensation is reducing more and more. It's just a matter of time, I hope, where it's just gone. Again, if there's anything else I learned, these aches, pains, etc disappear sort of in their own timeline.

Posted
On 9/23/2024 at 4:02 PM, Matt Chung said:

Again, if there's anything else I learned, these aches, pains, etc disappear sort of in their own timeline.

100% accurate, @Matt Chung, IF you're doing what you're doing! As well, to understand this at a visceral/experiential level, means that the next time a new pain manifests you won't immediately jump to the conclusion it's something you need to see a physio about! Very few modern humans have any idea of how resilient their structure is. And if no one has had any experience of the reality that you have found for yourself, they will always jump to a negative conclusion as to the significance.

And (seriously) some adopt what medical anthropologist Conrad called, "the sick role", and some of those never recover. Again, thank you for these musings.

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Posted
On 9/24/2024 at 10:45 AM, Kit_L said:

100% accurate, @Matt Chung, IF you're doing what you're doing! As well, to understand this at a visceral/experiential level, means that the next time a new pain manifests you won't immediately jump to the conclusion it's something you need to see a physio about! Very few modern humans have any idea of how resilient their structure is. And if no one has had any experience of the reality that you have found for yourself, they will always jump to a negative conclusion as to the significance.

And (seriously) some adopt what medical anthropologist Conrad called, "the sick role", and some of those never recover. Again, thank you for these musings.

Curiosity lead me to look up some of Conrad (first time I've been made aware of him) and skimmed over both 1) "The Social Construction of Illness: Key Insights and Policy Implications" and also (after perusing this thread) and 2) Kit's "Low back pain: Review and Prescription". And despite only reading through the intro, abstract, conclusion, I was blown and surprised away by the following:

"... all illnesses are socially constructed at the experiential level, based on how individuals come to understand and live with their illness."

Makes me really think about all the (perceived) pain I've been over the years, not only physically, but psychologically as well. Fascinating. Fascinating. Fascinating.

Posted (edited)

Day 131 of stretching

In the video, I quote Olivia from her post on the following thread, since I had hit pause on my Pilates journey a few weeks ago and redirected that time and energy towards stretching; this is temporary. I will, at some point, re-engage in the (Pilates based) strengthening exercises however I want to first, increase/restore range of motion before doing so.  I had independently made that decision and I think Olivia's recent post encapsulates my reasoning (below). Essentially, last year, when I started exploring mobility and flexibility, I was working with (a now friend from the dance community) coach who was helping me strengthen my body with (almost exclusively) kettle bell exercises. While I definitely grew stronger, and my body was becoming chiseled, I was growing frustrated that after 6+ months, the lingering pain (which I am addressing head on with stretching) that drove me his work initially did not improve. As such, instead of jumping from working with someone else, I turned inwards and starting getting curious as to how I might resolve my own physical pain.

"The reason for starting with range of motion is because if you try to work on strength when there is restricted range of motion/lack of connection to how to activate a muscle, you are liable to 1) recruit muscles other than what you are wanting to target to do the work, and/or 2) injure yourself. The flexibility work also enables you to feel individual muscles: once that has happened, then you can recruit them for the strength work."

 

Edited by Matt Chung
Updated with correct YouTube video (with captions)
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Posted

Day 132 of stretching and flexibility journey

Summary:

  • targeted calves and ankles (experimenting with different variations, each with their own trade offs), followed by squatting for 4-5 minutes
  • measured my heart rate before, during, and after stretching routine, and (2) meditation/relaxation practices

Today I started (for fun and curiosity) measuring my heart rate during my meditation and stretching practice. In a nutshell, Over the course of about 35 minutes, heart rate dropped from 69 bpm to 42 bpm. Most surprising though was that I had assumed that WHILE stretching, my BPM would've shot up, especially during the contract and relax. But that was not the case and in fact, heart rate continued to drop throughout the stretching routine.

BPM Results

  • 69 bpm - just before starting my stretching practice
  • 55 bpm - while in the midst of ankle stretches
  • switch to 10 minutes of paired muscle relaxation (PMR) meditation sequence
  • 50 bpm - at the end of the paired muscle relaxation meditation sequence
  • switch to 10 minutes of deep breathing relaxation exercise (inspired by book I'm reading: Sports Psyching)
  • 42 bpm - at the end of the deep breathing relaxation exercise

Background

I started a daily meditation practice a few weeks and while reading the Michael Gervais's First Rule of Mastery (blog post of mine with favorite quotes so far), I read how he (a sports psychologist) was working with a professional athlete and the athlete was practicing imagining anxiety inducing situations and applying breathing techniques at the same time to calm the nervous system, all the while measuring his heart rate to identify whether or not the breathing techniques were effective. And though stretching and meditation has been (and continues to be) an experiential practice, I wanted to at the same time collect some data.

Here's the setup:

  • I'm wearing a garmin heart rate monitor (HRM)
  • Data transmitted from HRM to iPhone via Bluetooth
  • Data displayed using (free version) of Strava

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Posted

Day 138

This is week 03 of my custom stretching routine that cycles between shoulders, hip flexors, ankles, hamstrings (with a little bit of spinal rotation, calves, and lats).

Today was day 01 of the program: shoulder, neck, hip extension, and ankle mobility

Summary

  • Shoulder/Pec wall stretch - just a couple months, could not even rotate a even single degree, let alone get into the initial position. The pain in my shoulder has subsided substantially and now I'm finally able to feel my pec stretch as I rotate; while there is no longer INTENSE pain concentrated in the upper shoulder/trap, it's still uncomfortable and again, recognize this will subside overtime. I'm very pleased with the progress here
  • Will revisit the starter video for guidance on the hip flexor stretch - when targeting the hip flexor, I think we want the front leg (not target leg) at an open angle; similarly, I recall that that same front leg is stepped out a bit to the side while in the lunge position. This positioning is how I've been performing the stretch however this week, the stretch ... feels different, not as intense as the last few weeks. It's maybe a combination of both 1) I'm performing the stretch differently or 2) the hip flexor flexibility has improved. My gut says its more of the latter because just the last week or two, my gait FEELS different. It's FEELS as though my legs are extending further back when walking, with less inhibition
  • Playing around with two variations of the ankle flexibility - Right now, my variation/adjustment consists of sitting on (2) Yoga blocks. This allows me to lift the knee up of the target ankle more easily. The sensation in the ankle is there but it's not quite as intense as when I reduce the number of yoga blocks from 2 to 1; the consequence of this though is that I'm unable to lift the knee up in the position (i.e. 1 yoga block). Both variations — 2 yoga blocks with high(er) knee lift vs 1 yoga block w/ less knee lift — target the ankle but it just feels different. So for now, I'm doing both.

Okay ta ta, going to start my routine for day 02 (i.e. hamstring lunge, elephant walk, forward fold, standing quad stretch, squat)

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Posted
12 hours ago, Matt Chung said:

I think we want the front leg (not target leg) at an open angle; similarly, I recall that that same front leg is stepped out a bit to the side while in the lunge position

The geometry is simple: start with knee angle on front leg 90° or so, square your hips, and pull yourself (with the front leg's hamstrings and your lats) forward until you feel a stretch in the front of the back leg. Now (I recommend using socks) open out the front leg's knee in subsequent attempts—the more open the front leg knee angle, the greater the tension on the hamstrings, and  the easier it is to keep the lumbar spine straight, and the stronger the potential stretch on the back leg.

The slight step out to the side with the front legs foot is only for balance; hip-width is usually enough.

Now back leg: in all positions of the front leg's knee, the back leg stretch will be increased by some method of partially bending the back leg's knee (for example, resting the back leg's foot on a block, or the seat of a chair, or foot up the wall like the combination quad–hip flexor stretches I demo on the YT channel) all the way to the fully held, then folded, back leg.

The lunge hamstring exercises and the quad–hip flexor exercises are all the same exercise: one leg forward, multiple knee angles; one leg back, again multiple knee angles. Front spits is the end position.

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Posted
9 hours ago, Kit_L said:

The geometry is simple: start with knee angle on front leg 90° or so, square your hips, and pull yourself (with the front leg's hamstrings and your lats) forward until you feel a stretch in the front of the back leg. Now (I recommend using socks) open out the front leg's knee in subsequent attempts—the more open the front leg knee angle, the greater the tension on the hamstrings, and  the easier it is to keep the lumbar spine straight, and the stronger the potential stretch on the back leg.

The slight step out to the side with the front legs foot is only for balance; hip-width is usually enough.

Now back leg: in all positions of the front leg's knee, the back leg stretch will be increased by some method of partially bending the back leg's knee (for example, resting the back leg's foot on a block, or the seat of a chair, or foot up the wall like the combination quad–hip flexor stretches I demo on the YT channel) all the way to the fully held, then folded, back leg.

The lunge hamstring exercises and the quad–hip flexor exercises are all the same exercise: one leg forward, multiple knee angles; one leg back, again multiple knee angles. Front spits is the end position.

Thanks for this @Kit_L. This makes sense and appreciate the detailed response. I started chuckling at "all the way to the fully held, then folded, back leg" because that movement sends chills up my spine because I recall back in the day, trying that movement during a yoga class and immediately cramping in the hamstring and since then, have not even attempted to perform the move. But I like the progression you provided (i.e. front on block, seat of chair, etc) and will give that a crack. I recognize that at some point in the future, I'll be able to (partially) bend the back leg's knee.

Will give this a crack.

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Posted

TFL pain caused by hip swaying?

Woke up this morning with (all too familiar) pain located in the left (I think) tensor fasciae latae. Deep, sharp pain in the left hip that historically tends to last a few days.

  • This pain (again, only left side for whatever reason) flares up when there's any dance movement that involves hip sway (gif below)
  • last night, I practiced dance at home and spent about 30 minutes working on a dance move that involves the hip sway
  • For last couple months, I've been avoiding hip swaying (as discussed in this other comment) due to feeling so restricted DURING the activity
  • I decided to hip sway last night because for the first time in a few months, I didn't feel restricted at the moment
  • Perhaps I over stressed it but part of me thinks there's some sort of strengthening / stretching exercises that will directly address the TFL challenges I've been experiencing this past year
  • I searched the forums and found a couple threads that recommend TFL exercises and going to see if I can start incorporating them into my routine
  • There might be some other muscle that's weak which causes the TFL to compensate; unsure but going to start experimenting immediately to see if I can get relieve and self-diagnose

hip-sway.gif.d3849895916eb8624fe682214ae2e459.gif

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Posted
14 hours ago, Matt Chung said:

spent about 30 minutes working on a dance move that involves the hip sway

Try five minutes next time—it might be a 'too much volume too early' kind of problem.

Posted

> Try five minutes next time—it might be a 'too much volume too early' kind of problem.

This is probably the case and I wouldn't be surprised if I just got overly excited about the ability to hip sway without restriction. In the past, this sort of pain (after re-injuring it) persists for a few days however, day two, the pain is more or less gone. That seems odd that the recovery time sped up.

Next time around, I'm going to limit to a few minutes and gradually build up the ability to sustain long(er) workouts that involve hip swaying.

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Posted

Day 141 (i.e. 4 months and 18 days)

This morning (Friday) is a repeat of Monday's target muscle groups: shoulder and hamstring.

  • I marveled at my body's ability to get into the shoulder stretch (i.e. arm out at 45 degrees planted along the wall) without pain. Again, on my right side (injured one), I'm thankful that I'm suddenly to experience the stretch without the pain (i.e. anterior part of shoulder and up towards the trap) that had previously prevented me even getting into the initial position. Another data point for trusting the process and (for me) most importantly, approaching stretching non-obsessively (a practice in its own)
  • I re-watched Kit's YouTube Hamstring exercise prior to doing today's hamstring stretch (below)
  • Although I cannot explain it (and will research this another time), when stretching the hamstring, I experience the hamstring stretch differently depending on whether or not I dorsiflex the target leg. In fact, today I decided to NOT dorsiflex (like I normally do) and felt the muscles were similar to the ones that feel stiff when I am in the squat position. Thus, did not dorsiflex for remainder rest of the session.
  • Looking back at today's footage, I'm (again) surprised at how long I'm able to sustain a hamstring stretch. Just a few months ago, I could barely hold the position for a few seconds — primarily because I was (without knowing at the time) inducing sciatic nerve pain — and floored that the hamstring exercises today collectively for about 8 minutes (was also in good company: woof).

Focus has been (thanks to Kit's suggestion) is to pull the shoulder back and lift the chest. Definitely visibly notice a reduced range of motion but ultimately, targets the muscles and feels more honest (i.e. not compensating).

The fact that I can even rotate even a few degrees here is a victory

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Posted
15 hours ago, Matt Chung said:

That seems odd that the recovery time sped up.

No. It always works like that, if you are doing the sort of thing you're doing! I used to have crippling low back pain – Olivia used to watch me crawl to the toilet first thing in the morning for many years. Now, nearly 40 years later, I am completely pain-free in this regard and can move well. It is only by doing exactly what you're doing (and that's exactly what I did for many years!), that you can experience this. Good on you!

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Posted
14 hours ago, Matt Chung said:

and felt the muscles were similar to the ones that feel stiff when I am in the squat position.

Yes, precisely: long head of biceps femoris, and the adductors. Most people don't know that the abductors are extensors of the hip joint in the full squat position – it is often the case that after the first heavy squat session of a season that the muscles that are sorest of all are the adductors and most people don't think they're involved in the squat much at all.

And the dorsiflexion lengthens the sciatic nerve, even if the leg is not straight (the sciatic nerve ends in the toes)—so what you experienced is, I feel, to be expected. This is also why gymnasts and dancers point their toes—and why if I know I have gymnasts and dancers in any workshop, I always make them pull their toes back before they bend forwards and that reduces their forward bends very significantly. We then stretch the calf muscles, and repeat, and the forward bend is always improved, even if they're still pulling their toes back. It's all connected!

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Posted (edited)

HUGE (UNANTICIPATED) MILESTONE REACHED TODAY

Okay, dropping down to non all caps and trying to contain my excitement ...

Today was the first day in 144 days (when I started this stretching journey) — 4 months and 21 days — that, while extending my right arm at 45 degrees for the shoulder stretch, experienced NO SHOULDER ROTATOR CUFF PAIN. It is actually so WEIRD and UNEXPECTED. Over the past 3 weeks, I've been focusing on rehabbing my chronic shoulder pain and have reported (several times) that the pain is reducing, slowly but surely, and still present. And I've been very content with that progress. But today ... today, I was SO SURPRISED — and fully of joy (as you can maybe see in the clip below) — that when I started rotating with my arm stretched out, somewhat anticipating the pain to begin, that it never arrived. Like POOF. GONE. At the risk of being disappointed about the sudden overnight progress vanishing / pain coming back suddenly, I wanted to report that even if temporary, this experience of NOT feeling pain in my shoulder rotator cuff was the highlight of today's stretch session.

 

Edited by Matt Chung
typo - prevent -> present
  • Like 3
Posted

Hi Matt

Kit asked me to post to say that his computer is out of action (drowned by salt water coming in a window of the boat in big seas – the computer that is, not Kit) and he cannot respond, but if he could, he would say great work!

Cheers, Olivia

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