Full Thoracic Bridge

[Simon]

Hi. Hello to all - I am new to the forums, having joined following exchanges with Kit over YouTube. Nice to meet everyone. I am posting this here at Kit's suggestion. I am looking for some guidance on how to improve my thoracic bridge, something I started working on a month or so ago. There are likely to be a number of issues (and feel free to point them all out!), but - to me - the main issue is overhead shoulder mobility which is preventing me from being able to "push" my shoulders over my wrists. On this photo, I am activating the glutes hard and pushing with my legs as well as trying as best I can to bend in the mid/upper back and not just in the lumbar region (although that also needs quite some work, I feel). But try as I might I cannot "persuade" the shoulders to allow me further motion away from the legs and over the wrists.

What exercises do folks recommend to try to improve overhead shoulder flexibility for the purposes of the full thoracic bridge? Or do you see other issues/problems I should be working on to improve my form in priority, or together with shoulder mobility? If it helps, I have access to rings and stall bars here at home. Thanks in advance.

[Kit_L]

That's a lovely bridge, @Simon. All you need is for a friend to come along while you're in this position, and for them to very gently place a hand on the spine, and gently press up and away from your feet at the same time (so at about a 45° angle) while you continue to a) press the arms as straight as you can, b) think of pushing the hips up away from the floor, and c0 gently try to press your legs straight, and finally d) time. Do one serious session a week (so five–six attempts) and on another session practise the passive back bend:

https://www.youtube.com/@KitLaughlin/search?query=pasive back bend

Any curved surface will do. Harder ones are better as you get used to letting yourself 'mould' over them. The work in this session is about letting yourself relax completely over whatever curved surface you are using. No effort, other than 'letting go'.

[Simon]

Thank you, Kit. Coming from you, this is high praise indeed: quite unexpected, highly appreciated, and massively encouraging. I will find a friend, follow your guidance, and see where this takes me. For the passive side, would a simple, inexpensive yoga wheel do the trick? I love that baby whale that you use in one of your videos, but that's a little more of an investment, so it may need to wait until Christmas (along with a few other investments)! So I am thinking of an inexpensive yoga wheel to get me moving along the path (and bending better) in the immediate future. If it goes well, perhaps I will share a progress photo in a month or two's time ...

Meantime, thanks so much again for your kind and encouraging words, and your time.

Simon.

[Kit_L]

A pleasure. A perfect bridge is not that far away for you. All that's needed to take the extension out of your wrists is to (in time) concentrate on getting your shoulders over your hands. This will happen as the thoracic spine extends; it's all a process whose elements are well known. You are 85% of the way there. Don't rush.

[andyfitz]

Hi, that bridge is so impressive and even more so .. that you mention you’ve only been focusing on it for the last month!!
 

this is so something I’ve worked on for the last 5 years with some very slow progress. Many years of playing contact sports as well as maybe a proportionately very long spine might be reason for such poor movement in this position.. I would be really grateful for grateful for any suggestions of area to work on here..

Andrew

 

[Simon]

Hi Andy, and thanks for posting in reply to my post. Honestly, I am not sure I am the right person to be giving advice on this topic - I think maybe I have a genetic advantage in being quite flexible (but not so much - so far - in my thoracic spine, like most folks who have worked behind a desk most of their lives), and maybe the work I have done (on and off) over the past 3-4 years on handstands has helped? Actually, the initial reason I started training the thoracic bridge was to help improve the line of my handstand, because I felt I was lacking overhead shoulder flexibility which was stalling my handstand progress. But I quickly found training the thoracic bridge was a worthy goal in and of itself. As it happens, I do think it is improving my handstand line (balance is entirely another issue!) Anyway, maybe it is a combination of these factors which has helped me progress quickly?

As for your bridge, whilst your tee is covering the thoracic spine area, I have a feeling that your bend in this area is not too dissimilar to mine. The biggest difference is just the bent arms. So, I am thinking that the initial focus might be on trying to get the arms straight (or straighter). Maybe that is a case of overhead shoulder mobility, or maybe it is psychological (your brain telling you further straightening is not safe, when in fact it is), or maybe you need to externally rotate your shoulders/scapular to make room for straightening (see more on this below). 

With all this in mind, let me say what helped me, so you can consider whether any of these might also help you and, if so, giving them a go (but I am certainly no expert!):

1. Start by going on tiptoes. So while you still have your head on the floor, go up on tiptoes, then push up with your hands to enter the bridge position. (You can later put your heels down if you feel like you can / want to try.)

2. Then push with your hands and try to get your arms straight before worrying too much about the legs. Keep pushing upwards and trying to straighten. You might find that you can in fact straighten them more than your brain was letting you think you could! Keep pushing up on the hands as strongly as you dare ...

3. Think about pulling your scapulars apart. I think this is external rotation (but someone put me right if that is wrong). I don't know why but instinctively I do the opposite, but then the shoulder blades get in the way and it is difficult to push out the arms and chest further. So maybe try to do this. 

4. Once you get your arms straight, or as straight as you can, only then start trying to straighten the legs a bit and/or put down your heels.

You could try some of this - I think it is how I got to where I am. But one note of caution. I think I have pretty strong wrists, from my handstand and other calisthenics work. My suggestion above can put quite a strain on the wrists because they will be bent a long way from 90 degrees for a while. So do be careful and take care of your wrists. My method may not be the best for you/others.

But even having said all this, the best advice I can give you is to listen to Kit and follow what he says. I have just today had another bridge session and have tried to follow all Kit's cues from this week on this forum, and the result is (I think) pretty amazing! I will post a photo below, but I am really over the moon with the progress made so quickly having posted on this forum. And I haven't yet had a chance to do any partner work, which I think will get this going even more quickly. In getting to the position in the photo below, I really kept on pushing back and found I could go further than I thought (my brain was blocking me), and focussing on keeping the shoulder blades apart (and all Kit's other cues from above). This is where I found myself on my 5th attempt today (much improved from my 1st attempt; in fact, each attempt was a significant improvement on the one before, so make sure you do a few attempts). The wrist angle is much closer to 90 degrees and I am no longer on my tiptoes, which I would not have believed possible a few days ago.

Lastly, Andy, the very best of luck with your personal thoracic bridge journey. Keep on at it, and you will get there I am sure.

Best.

Simon.

[Kit_L]

@Simon and @andyfitz: 

@Simon: remarkable change, for sure.

Both of you can use an exercise we call the "Box Bridge", where the feet are elevated at least 12" from the floor, on something you can try to straighten your legs against (it must not slide, IOW). By elevating the feet (and andy, this is why Simon was up on his toes) the lumbar extension is reduced—and by straightening the legs (or trying to) you can put the extension moment into the thoracic spine instead. Straightening the arms is much easier in the box bridge. Ladder bars can be used instead of a box (this is what I use).

@andyfitz: your lats are tight, and this is why straightening the arms is so hard. Spend time hanging from a bar and see the links I put in my first reply to Simon; this will really help you. And don't waste your time with the full bridge for now; only do the box bridge and the passive back bends as well. You will make rapid progress, once the right exercises are done.

[andyfitz]

Thanks so much Simon and Kit for replying 

I’ll change my approach to improving this bridge right away and I’ll hopefully report back with some improvements soon 🙂

[Jim Pickles]

@Simon That's looking good - lots of progress since the first photo. Keep it up, and it will continue to improve, I'm sure.

 

[Simon]

Hi all, and thanks to Kit for the further advice, and to Jim for the encouragement! Much appreciated. Andy, I hope your journey continues.

At the moment, I am training the bridge just once a week. FYI - I have a 10-minute warm-up routine, followed by a 15-minute specific bridge training work, which includes elevated bridges on my ladder bars (thanks for that advice, Kit). Then, I try a full thoracic bridge for 4-6 attempts, holding and/or rocking back and forth to try to gently push my shoulder back further over my wrists. This time, as well as trying to focus on keeping my shoulders in external rotation, I also worked on trying to straighten my legs, moving my feet a little further away from my hands to assist with this. Below is a photo of my best attempt of today (the last of my 5 attempts) for reference. Frankly, I am not too certain that this is better than a week ago, but I was trying to do something a little different in terms of straightening the legs more, so perhaps a direct comparison is difficult. To me, the wrists are still too flexed - close to 90 degrees, but not quite there, but mainly I still need better overhead shoulder flexibility to get those darned shoulders over the wrists! Working on that separately.

Generally, I find a significant improvement from attempt 1 to the final attempt, although the improvements diminish with each attempt. So, today, attempt 2 was significantly better than attempt 1, but attempt 5 was very similar (perhaps the same) as attempt 4. But in attempt 5 I did move my feet away more to try to straighten the legs a little more. Not quite there with that. Anyway, I will continue with my weekly efforts, and post here when I can if that is ok? If it is better I post elsewhere to show progress (or lack thereof) do let me know, in case this is not the appropriate place to post weekly (or possibly in the future, monthly) updates - weekly might be a little too frequent, as I suspect that any progress will take longer than a week to show, given I am only training this once per week (FYI, I am also training pancake and side splits once per week each, as well as doing resistance training and/or more general stretching on the other 3-4 days, so there is not much space in the exercise diary to train the bridge more than once per week at the moment!).

Thanks all, as always.

Simon. 

[Jim Pickles]

I think weekly is probably enough - maybe twice a week would be better, but weekly is OK. For this move, I dont think you are stretching muscles, as much as remodelling the connective tissue. I myself found in backbending that I could go a lot further if I engaged muscles in the upper back to pull the upper back into a deeper bend. I'm not sure which muscles they are anatomically - I think some of them run between the ribs, others along the back - I feel them broadly across the upper back. But learning to engage them made a big difference.

 

[Kit_L]

@Simon,

Please try a box bridge—place your feet two or three rungs up that ladder behind you in the image above, for example. By manipulating the distance between your hands, the quads' forces will go right into your middle and upper back where you want it to go. Also, let your head hang and let the tension go from everywhere except your triceps, glutes, and legs. Keep pressing the arms as far off the body as you can (a 'reaching' feeling).

If you can feel how to activate the muscles Jim mentions, the effect will be even better. Most often, in my experience, practising the desired end pose is not the most efficient way to get there. Please try the box bridge instead, and post an image. And report back as to how it felt; this is the missing part from most people's stretching practise. Did the box bridge feel any different, and if so, how?

[andyfitz]

Been doing the box bridge twice a week, 3 sets of 7 deep breaths 

as well as some Lat stretches 

feel like it’s improving fast.

 

[Simon]

Yeah, looking good Andy. Great work! Keep it up. I'll be taking Kit's further advice and will post a photo of my elevated bridge on my wall bars next time  I get the chance to practice. Best to all ...

[Kit_L]

The reason the BB works so spectacularly (@andyfitz: excellent—what an improvement!) is simply this: the BB takes the excessive lumbar extension away from the movement. It also removes rectus femoris's massive lumbar extension moment, too—all this together means you can concentrate the leg power into the middle, then upper, back, and the arm straightening is a direct and effective lat stretch. You just can get these effects using the whole exercise until you can do the full bridge properly.

Take-home? Work on the wall hip flexor exercises (search the YT channel for these), passive back bends, hanging for the lats, and the box bridge, once a week with multiple sets (as both @andyfitz and @Simon are doing) and expect to spend 30–60 mins on all the component exercises. Once a month, try the full bridge off the floor; progress is assured.

[Simon]

So, my usual Sunday bridge work is done! As promised, @Kit_L, I am posting a photo of my box bridge today, as well as the latest full bridge. Apologies, I will need to be more conscious of how the box bridge felt as compared to the regular bridge, so I can report on that next time. What I can probably say is that the main area where I feel a "strain" when extending as fully as I can into the bridge is the bottom of the deltoid before it connects to the tricep. (Well, that is as best as I can describe the area.) Not sure if that is normal ... I can alleviate this by placing my hands further apart from each other. Not sure if that is an acceptable position for the bridge.

Anyway, the journey continues. And, as you mention Kit, I am and will continue my wall hip flexor exercises, passive back ends, and the box bridge at least once a week ... hanging I do pretty much every day already :). Thanks again for the advice and encouragement.

 

[Kit_L]

Excellent. Carry on.

[andyfitz]

Not sure there has been dramatic improvement with this movement but it’s definitely easier to get to it, as in I have to warm up less 

 

[Kit_L]

That's what progress looks and feels like.  Next practise: once you get into this position, let your head hang (slowly!) and let your neck relax. Then squeeze the glutes and push this hip up as high as you can, and then focus on straightening the arms. Repeat four or five times over 20 mins. or so.

If you can find someone to help on the last two reps., ask them to gently press one hand at 90° to the stiffest part of your middle–upper back, pretty much between your shoulder blades. Once you feel this help, you can relax a bit—then breathe into the top of the chest, and try to let the back bend around that hand support. Re-apply all cues. This partner assist is a game-changer.

[andyfitz]

Thanks for the reply and the advice.

how long would you suggest holding each repetition..

 

I had been holding for 7 deep breaths at the top of each rep

[Kit_L]

All depends on how fast the breaths are! Seven sounds like a good number; next time try nine, and work out when to apply the extra cues. Are you doing any relaxed passive back bends?

[andyfitz]

Ok thanks I’ll try that.

I have a baby whale that I don’t use enough 

and I also lay with my shoulder blades at the edge of the bench arms extended back on stall bars as I try to create thoracic extension by trying to breathe the ribs laterally 

I’ll try and post a pic of what I mean

[Kit_L]

By all means post a pic, but I think I know what you mean. I'm looking forward to seeing change!

[Simon]

Good to see your journey continuing Andy, keep up the good work! I have had a month off bridge work, due to travel in Asia. I was frankly a bit worried about how things might go today, some 5 weeks after my last posting, but I was pleasantly surprised. Below is today's best effort, after the usual warm-up, elevated bridges, passive backbends, etc. I don't think it is too far off where I left things in mid-April. Shoulders close to being over wrists (still not there yet) and legs relatively straight. Happy with that for today. I must say, this is all very encouraging to me - it looks like, once obtained, gains are (largely, although perhaps not entirely) retained even if you do not practice regularly. Great news, if true. And maybe it was good to have a period of de-load, after several weeks of work on the full thoracic bridge. Anyway, will be back to it on a regular, weekly basis for a while from here on in. 

 

 

 

[Kit_L]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

it looks like, once obtained, gains are (largely, although perhaps not entirely) retained even if you do not practice regularly.

This is accurate.

And looking at the image above, we can now say that your lats are now the limiting factor (the limiting factors usually change as you get more flexible). And I'll offer the same advise I offered to Andy: once in position, let the head, face, and neck relax, and breathe into the top of the chest. This will help further shoulder flexion (lat length controls this). And go back to the box bridge and bring the feet closer to the hands (by a few inches) and then use leg effort to move the shoulders over your hands. When I was doing this, I positioned myself opposite a wall, feet on a support about a foot high, and tried to get my chest to touch the wall. It did, in time.