Buteyko Method & how it relates to ST?

[Ryan_F]

Hello,

I was surprised to see no mention of the Buteyko Method on here so I thought I'd start a thread to gauge thoughts & experiences on the subject.

It's a breathing method which was developed by a Soviet doctor.  As far as I can understand, the idea behind it is that breathing less = better health & one can achieve this by doing exercises to induce a state of light "air hunger".

Has anyone had experience with the method or anything similar?

 

[Kit_L]

I have no experience in this method; do please delve into it if you are interested, and post back.

Olivia and I did do a workshop with Patrick McKeown (The Oxygen Advantage). One of the key exercises is the "BOLT" score; I did 45" on the workshop, which apparently is high, and when Patrick asked me how I did it, I said I simply relaxed as soon as I felt like breathing. That did not resonate with him, and he didn't pursue this approach. Also apparently (because I have not seen any research on this) increasing this score improves nitric oxide 'dump' in the body; this is said to have many benefits. I worked up to a 90" BOLT score over a few months, but could not feel any effect from doing this, so have let it go. 

[Pat (pogo69)]

On 10/1/2021 at 10:53 AM, Kit_L said:

Also apparently (because I have not seen any research on this) increasing this score improves nitric oxide 'dump' in the body; this is said to have many benefits.

The science behind this is pretty solid.  But its coverage in 'The Oxygen Advantage' is peripheral at best, and evasive at worst.  I found the book quite a disappointment, but the ideas (in conjunction with Wikipedia and PubMed) quite fascinating.

Slowing your breathing, and more importantly, nasal breathing will improve oxygen transport (including and importantly to peripheral tissues) and activate the parasympathetic nervous system.

On 10/1/2021 at 10:53 AM, Kit_L said:

One of the key exercises is the "BOLT" score; I did 45" on the workshop, which apparently is high, and when Patrick asked me how I did it, I said I simply relaxed as soon as I felt like breathing. That did not resonate with him, and he didn't pursue this approach.
...
I worked up to a 90" BOLT score over a few months, but could not feel any effect from doing this, so have let it go. 

45" is very high for a "beginner".  90" is ridiculous.  But as with all things, there are many roads to each destination.  I suspect yogic practises of breathwork, nasal breathing , meditation, and relaxation all work towards the same end.

It has been on my TODO list for some time, as I believe it could be of great advantage.  But I routinely deprioritise it, because a) life is hard and b) nasal breathing is very unpleasant for someone with decades of chronic rhinitis and nasal polyps.  This of course, makes it all the more important, but... such is life.

[Kit_L]

The point of mentioning the score I was able to get easily on the workshop (and I reproduced it a few times more while on the same workshop) was that I know how to relax; most people think they can (but as soon as that desire to breathe hits, they will know that they cannot). For me, relaxation is not conceptual: I can relax – and tension is the first thing that the person who is trying to delay breathing experiences. Working up to 90" was the work of a couple of months, a few times a week, and done while I was driving – so fully conscious. You can do it too. Anyone who is familiar with our work can, I believe. The larger point is that in the area of meditation/relaxation/whichever I am not a beginner.

[Kit_L]

9 hours ago, Pat (pogo69) said:

The science behind this is pretty solid.  But its coverage in 'The Oxygen Advantage' is peripheral at best, and evasive at worst.

I have not read the book; I only did a workshop with the author. so can't comment on that aspect.

[Cameron]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:22 AM, Kit_L said:

I have not read the book; I only did a workshop with the author. so can't comment on that aspect.

Kit, thanks for sharing those personal experiences re: The Oxygen Advantage method with Patrick. Very interesting how your BOLT score was so high. In the book, he does indicate that once one's score is 40 or above, that's high enough/ because it was already so high, it makes sense that you didn't notice any benefit by increasing it further.

I recently read this book, and parts have made a lot of sense to me, while other bits have brought up a lot of confusion in my mind. Here's what I know:

• My BOLT score is currently around 20, and it goes down closer to 15 when I'm especially tired or stressed. Definitely some room for improvement!
• My breathing, especially when tired or stressed, could indeed feel a lot more relaxed & smooth. The book indicates that increasing one's BOLT score past 20 is expected to cause breathing to feel a lot more relaxed smooth, and even. Thus, practicing consistently to increase my BOLT score over the upcoming weeks/months seems to be worth a try.
• I was attracted to the Oxygen Advantage method specifically because of how much value I've noticed in relaxing my abdominal muscles when
  • stretching with Stretch Therapy
  • when running--makes even a fairly intense run (and the breathing during) feel a lot easier
• Other methods I've studied emphasize the slowing and quieting of the breath, and I know in my body that this is indeed valuable and feels wonderful when done with relaxation.
• Yet, to my surprise, the method doesn't seem to do much towards relaxation of the muscles; it really emphasizes only increasing blood CO2 concentration & tolerance, out of which it's presumed that increased relaxation of the breathing naturally arises.

Here's what I'm wondering:

• In Patrick's book, he mentions that, to improve one's BOLT score, it's important to "Avoid taking large breaths while sighing, yawning, and talking." This does makes sense within the theory of The Oxygen Advantage method, in terms of the goal of keeping one's blood CO2 levels high enough, which, counter-intuitively, may help to increase oxygen uptake.  Still, this advice to squelch any desire or habit of taking a deep breath seems to run completely contrary to so many relaxation/breathing courses I've taken over the years; are they all "wrong"/misguided as he seems to suggest? Patrick asserts that "taking a deep breath" is literally a counterproductive idea if one is seeking to increase the cells' oxygen uptake, and I'm trying to figure out how useful this concept is, within what context, what the exceptions may be, and perhaps how it fits into a bigger picture than what he's describing in the book.
• I immediately thought of the relaxation-facilitating sighs suggested by so many methods, including at the beginning of many of Kit & Olivia's Stretch Therapy guided relaxation audios. I wonder what would Patrick possibly suggest instead of a deep-breath sigh to help the body to relax? Perhaps there is some truth that it would not be healthy to sigh/take a deep breath too often (especially if done chronically/tensely), but I'm having trouble imagining that it's truly detrimental in moderation; I have the feeling that Patrick's strict method guidelines may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
• To the same point, it may be illustrative, Kit, that you have such a high BOLT score, given that/even though I'd imagine that you're probably not in the habit of entirely suppressing deep breaths or sighs throughout your daily life?
• I'm wondering if the real answer re: sighing/taking deep breaths is what you have found Kit: perhaps there's a marked difference in the net effect on the body between a tense, stressed attempt at deep breath or a tense sigh versus a relaxed, ribcage-stretching deep breath or deep, long tension-releasing sigh.
• Patrick states, "The following sentence is the most important point of this entire book, and something I explain to my students daily: The only way to know you are reducing your breathing volume is feeling as if you would like to take in a bigger breath."
  Is he suggesting that one should breathe shallowly enough that it's actually at least slightly uncomfortable (because you'd actually prefer to breathe more deeply) in daily life?  If so, it seems to me that like an unnecessary tension added to life and that the goal should instead be something more along the lines of becoming comfortable/relaxed with breathing more softly/quietly/less volume. 
• Finally, while time is spent discussing generally relaxed abdominal breathing, there is no discussion of the role the the side and back ribs play in breathing. It's my understanding that the side and back ribs have an important role to play in allowing in more breathing volume. Since Patrick's method is focused on decreasing volume, it makes sense that this is not discussed. Are there not some situation in which increased breathing volume capacity is desired? 

Curious to hear others' thoughts in these regards.

 

Thanks!

Cameron

[Kit_L]

On 6/24/2022 at 4:07 AM, Cameron said:

the method doesn't seem to do much towards relaxation of the muscles

Exactly. And I was surprised that Patrick was not more interested in what I reported on the workshop itself. The capacity to voluntarily relax the muscles when the whole body is experiencing threat (by not breathing when it's normal to, experientially) is one of the core values of what we do. 

Please re-read what you posted above with these brief remarks in mind, and if you want to ask these questions again, please ask the one that's most important to you personally, and I will do my best to address it.

[Cameron]

On 6/25/2022 at 4:37 AM, Kit_L said:

Exactly. And I was surprised that Patrick was not more interested in what I reported on the workshop itself. The capacity to voluntarily relax the muscles when the whole body is experiencing threat (by not breathing when it's normal to, experientially) is one of the core values of what we do. 

Please re-read what you posted above with these brief remarks in mind, and if you want to ask these questions again, please ask the one that's most important to you personally, and I will do my best to address it.

Thanks, Kit! Still mulling this over.

[Matt Chung]

On 10/6/2021 at 10:06 AM, Kit_L said:

I know how to relax; most people think they can (but as soon as that desire to breathe hits, they will know that they cannot). For me, relaxation is not conceptual: I can relax – and tension is the first thing that the person who is trying to delay breathing experiences. Working up to 90" was the work of a couple of months, a few times a week, and done while I was driving – so fully conscious. You can do it too. Anyone who is familiar with our work can, I believe. The larger point is that in the area of meditation/relaxation/whichever I am not a beginner.

I was at first reluctant to ask this question at the risk of sounding like I am playing devil's advocate however, I am curious how @Kit_L  knows he can relax. My guess is that he can "feel" his body relax, in similar ways we feel tension melting away while holding stretches. This question is driven by curiosity to know if there are additional quantitative/qualitative ways to perform self measurement (like in this post, BOLT score — something I haven't heard of but will look into). Up until recently, I was definitely one of the people who "think" they could relax, only to discover that I was just unaware of the various tensions I hold throughout the day (even as I type this). Assuming relaxation is a state, I imagine of "knowing" that one can relax is "feeling" each of the different parts of the body release tension.

[Rik]

I think this is a thing that becomes clear as you develop a relaxation practice. The act of relaxing is letting go of tension. Easiest way to experience it is by taking deep breath in, and letting it all out with a big "aaaaaah" sound.

Relaxation practice often involves a fully body scan so I suppose that's how you "know" that you are not "hiding" tension somewhere. Air quotes because that's not the point. The point is to develop deep relaxation, and be able to access that state also outside of your practice. Whether or not there is some more even deeper or "truer" relaxation is irrelevant.

[Kit_L]

The making the "aaaaaah" sound is very helpful to start the process, I think. Thanks @Rik, for that. And not coincidentally, this is how we start all public relaxation exercises (the sound is usually three times).

Speaking generally, @Matt Chung, you can be certain that relaxation is a state, and there is a substantial literature on this. Relaxation is a parasympathetic nervous system response that has been studied extensively. 

Now, in asking these questions (and thanks for asking them; they are great questions), you are overthinking this and relaxation is not a state you can think yourself into. It's the opposite, in fact. In saying this, I am not making the claim that you can stop your thinking voluntarily, but rather that as you relax (and are aware of this process happening, usually by using a meditation object like the sensations in the body we label "breathing" and perhaps counting the breaths, though not essential) thinking slows, gaps open by themselves (so thoughts, then space, then next though), the gaps become longer, breathing may stop for up to 30", and much later, only gaps. In this state you are fully present aware of everything around and inside you, and you notice that there are no thoughts.

How do I know this? Counting 120 breaths in 60 minutes in a practise session is one way, and being aware of each of those breaths. There is no evidence to support this claim, only the direct personal experience of this.

[Kit_L]

@Rik and @Matt Chung: there is one more critical detail, but first a distinction:

When we are talking, thinking, writing, and describing, we are explicitly in the conceptual realm. When we are feeling the movements in the body we call 'breathing', we are in the experiential realm. Both realms supervene on the physical body involved. In important ways these realms are separate, and everyone has a preference for one of these!

One of the goals of a relaxation practise is, once that state is experienced and established in the body (by this I mean that a new habit has been acquired) you are then able to access this state at will. This is simply the larger version of what @Matt Chung wrote about in another thread when he mentioned becoming aware of one of his shoulders lifting while working at the computer, and then describing that he let it go back to where it was. That is relaxation 101. It is the essential first step to mastery.

[SiW]

@Kit_L I am practising yoga nidra on an (almost) daily basis now for 2-3 months, having done it intermittently in the past. It is a wonderful practice. I am currently reading Swami Satyananda Saraswati’s book. 
 

I would appreciate your thoughts on a couple of points;

1. must I always rely on a guided practice? I occasionally just lie down with no audio and run through the script mentally, but then find I am unsure how long I have been going. Can a timer be used? I don’t like the idea of an alarm rousing me quickly from the relaxed state. 

2. How can I translate my new practice into daily life? If I want to actually relax at work it’s not practical to lie down and shut my eyes. I’d probably lose my job! 
 

Thank you immensely for intruding this practice to me. 
 

Simon

[Kit_L]

7 hours ago, SiW said:

Swami Satyananda Saraswati’s book

Definitely the best book on the subject, but if you can, try to get one of the earliest additions – he sanitised many of the scripts because the image of a burning body floating down the Ganges River was considered to confronting for most western students. For him of course, watching these Riverville would've been a daily occurrence if he was in that area.

With regards to  point 1 – you most definitely do not need to do a guided practice. My recommendation is to do breath counting practice instead and I think I've written about this elsewhere. If I haven't, I can give you a quick primer on it. Then, once that practice has been embodied and you can get to at least 108 breath counts without losing your concentration, then it's perfectly okay to do the practice without "doing" anything except being aware of what's happening now. The only potential downside of this is if you're not well rested the likelihood of you falling asleep is quite a bit more likely!

With regard to point 2, you have to embed part of your awareness in your body so that as you feel yourself tightening up in relation to what's going on around you, you take a breath and as you breathe out, let your tummy go completely soft, and simply allow yourself to relax. No one around you will notice anything changing, but you'll feel very different though. I don't know if you are doing any particular stretching exercise practice presently, but the reason we recommend these (lying relaxation, and regular stretching) being done together is that the more accomplished you become at the stretching part, the more quickly you become aware that you're tightening up in the moment at work. Each works with the other extremely well.

[SiW]

Thank you Kit. I will explore the breath-counting further. I currently follow a recording that takes me through body awareness through followed by breath-counting (‘count down from 27’), so I will alter this to count towards 108 (goal) and try with no recordings. I have read of your various experiences and advice elsewhere in the forum. 
 

wrt relaxing in ‘real life’ situations, I find if I relax my neck and shoulders that is key for me, but will incorporate the abdomen too on your advice. I also find I need continual reminders as once I relax and find myself tense again with seconds! A work in progress I feel. 
 

no I do not currently stretch regularly. What little spare time I have I play tennis, swing kettlebells. I have stretched in the past and have your beginner course. 

[Kit_L]

On 5/14/2026 at 1:09 AM, SiW said:

A work in progress I feel. 

We all are, and if you're lucky, it never stops! Working on the stretching twice a week will work in well with the relaxation, you'll find.