Buteyko Method & how it relates to ST?

[Ryan_F]

Hello,

I was surprised to see no mention of the Buteyko Method on here so I thought I'd start a thread to gauge thoughts & experiences on the subject.

It's a breathing method which was developed by a Soviet doctor.  As far as I can understand, the idea behind it is that breathing less = better health & one can achieve this by doing exercises to induce a state of light "air hunger".

Has anyone had experience with the method or anything similar?

 

[Kit_L]

I have no experience in this method; do please delve into it if you are interested, and post back.

Olivia and I did do a workshop with Patrick McKeown (The Oxygen Advantage). One of the key exercises is the "BOLT" score; I did 45" on the workshop, which apparently is high, and when Patrick asked me how I did it, I said I simply relaxed as soon as I felt like breathing. That did not resonate with him, and he didn't pursue this approach. Also apparently (because I have not seen any research on this) increasing this score improves nitric oxide 'dump' in the body; this is said to have many benefits. I worked up to a 90" BOLT score over a few months, but could not feel any effect from doing this, so have let it go. 

[Pat (pogo69)]

On 10/1/2021 at 10:53 AM, Kit_L said:

Also apparently (because I have not seen any research on this) increasing this score improves nitric oxide 'dump' in the body; this is said to have many benefits.

The science behind this is pretty solid.  But its coverage in 'The Oxygen Advantage' is peripheral at best, and evasive at worst.  I found the book quite a disappointment, but the ideas (in conjunction with Wikipedia and PubMed) quite fascinating.

Slowing your breathing, and more importantly, nasal breathing will improve oxygen transport (including and importantly to peripheral tissues) and activate the parasympathetic nervous system.

On 10/1/2021 at 10:53 AM, Kit_L said:

One of the key exercises is the "BOLT" score; I did 45" on the workshop, which apparently is high, and when Patrick asked me how I did it, I said I simply relaxed as soon as I felt like breathing. That did not resonate with him, and he didn't pursue this approach.
...
I worked up to a 90" BOLT score over a few months, but could not feel any effect from doing this, so have let it go. 

45" is very high for a "beginner".  90" is ridiculous.  But as with all things, there are many roads to each destination.  I suspect yogic practises of breathwork, nasal breathing , meditation, and relaxation all work towards the same end.

It has been on my TODO list for some time, as I believe it could be of great advantage.  But I routinely deprioritise it, because a) life is hard and b) nasal breathing is very unpleasant for someone with decades of chronic rhinitis and nasal polyps.  This of course, makes it all the more important, but... such is life.

[Kit_L]

The point of mentioning the score I was able to get easily on the workshop (and I reproduced it a few times more while on the same workshop) was that I know how to relax; most people think they can (but as soon as that desire to breathe hits, they will know that they cannot). For me, relaxation is not conceptual: I can relax – and tension is the first thing that the person who is trying to delay breathing experiences. Working up to 90" was the work of a couple of months, a few times a week, and done while I was driving – so fully conscious. You can do it too. Anyone who is familiar with our work can, I believe. The larger point is that in the area of meditation/relaxation/whichever I am not a beginner.

[Kit_L]

9 hours ago, Pat (pogo69) said:

The science behind this is pretty solid.  But its coverage in 'The Oxygen Advantage' is peripheral at best, and evasive at worst.

I have not read the book; I only did a workshop with the author. so can't comment on that aspect.

[Cameron]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:22 AM, Kit_L said:

I have not read the book; I only did a workshop with the author. so can't comment on that aspect.

Kit, thanks for sharing those personal experiences re: The Oxygen Advantage method with Patrick. Very interesting how your BOLT score was so high. In the book, he does indicate that once one's score is 40 or above, that's high enough/ because it was already so high, it makes sense that you didn't notice any benefit by increasing it further.

I recently read this book, and parts have made a lot of sense to me, while other bits have brought up a lot of confusion in my mind. Here's what I know:

• My BOLT score is currently around 20, and it goes down closer to 15 when I'm especially tired or stressed. Definitely some room for improvement!
• My breathing, especially when tired or stressed, could indeed feel a lot more relaxed & smooth. The book indicates that increasing one's BOLT score past 20 is expected to cause breathing to feel a lot more relaxed smooth, and even. Thus, practicing consistently to increase my BOLT score over the upcoming weeks/months seems to be worth a try.
• I was attracted to the Oxygen Advantage method specifically because of how much value I've noticed in relaxing my abdominal muscles when
  • stretching with Stretch Therapy
  • when running--makes even a fairly intense run (and the breathing during) feel a lot easier
• Other methods I've studied emphasize the slowing and quieting of the breath, and I know in my body that this is indeed valuable and feels wonderful when done with relaxation.
• Yet, to my surprise, the method doesn't seem to do much towards relaxation of the muscles; it really emphasizes only increasing blood CO2 concentration & tolerance, out of which it's presumed that increased relaxation of the breathing naturally arises.

Here's what I'm wondering:

• In Patrick's book, he mentions that, to improve one's BOLT score, it's important to "Avoid taking large breaths while sighing, yawning, and talking." This does makes sense within the theory of The Oxygen Advantage method, in terms of the goal of keeping one's blood CO2 levels high enough, which, counter-intuitively, may help to increase oxygen uptake.  Still, this advice to squelch any desire or habit of taking a deep breath seems to run completely contrary to so many relaxation/breathing courses I've taken over the years; are they all "wrong"/misguided as he seems to suggest? Patrick asserts that "taking a deep breath" is literally a counterproductive idea if one is seeking to increase the cells' oxygen uptake, and I'm trying to figure out how useful this concept is, within what context, what the exceptions may be, and perhaps how it fits into a bigger picture than what he's describing in the book.
• I immediately thought of the relaxation-facilitating sighs suggested by so many methods, including at the beginning of many of Kit & Olivia's Stretch Therapy guided relaxation audios. I wonder what would Patrick possibly suggest instead of a deep-breath sigh to help the body to relax? Perhaps there is some truth that it would not be healthy to sigh/take a deep breath too often (especially if done chronically/tensely), but I'm having trouble imagining that it's truly detrimental in moderation; I have the feeling that Patrick's strict method guidelines may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
• To the same point, it may be illustrative, Kit, that you have such a high BOLT score, given that/even though I'd imagine that you're probably not in the habit of entirely suppressing deep breaths or sighs throughout your daily life?
• I'm wondering if the real answer re: sighing/taking deep breaths is what you have found Kit: perhaps there's a marked difference in the net effect on the body between a tense, stressed attempt at deep breath or a tense sigh versus a relaxed, ribcage-stretching deep breath or deep, long tension-releasing sigh.
• Patrick states, "The following sentence is the most important point of this entire book, and something I explain to my students daily: The only way to know you are reducing your breathing volume is feeling as if you would like to take in a bigger breath."
  Is he suggesting that one should breathe shallowly enough that it's actually at least slightly uncomfortable (because you'd actually prefer to breathe more deeply) in daily life?  If so, it seems to me that like an unnecessary tension added to life and that the goal should instead be something more along the lines of becoming comfortable/relaxed with breathing more softly/quietly/less volume. 
• Finally, while time is spent discussing generally relaxed abdominal breathing, there is no discussion of the role the the side and back ribs play in breathing. It's my understanding that the side and back ribs have an important role to play in allowing in more breathing volume. Since Patrick's method is focused on decreasing volume, it makes sense that this is not discussed. Are there not some situation in which increased breathing volume capacity is desired? 

Curious to hear others' thoughts in these regards.

 

Thanks!

Cameron

[Kit_L]

On 6/24/2022 at 4:07 AM, Cameron said:

the method doesn't seem to do much towards relaxation of the muscles

Exactly. And I was surprised that Patrick was not more interested in what I reported on the workshop itself. The capacity to voluntarily relax the muscles when the whole body is experiencing threat (by not breathing when it's normal to, experientially) is one of the core values of what we do. 

Please re-read what you posted above with these brief remarks in mind, and if you want to ask these questions again, please ask the one that's most important to you personally, and I will do my best to address it.

[Cameron]

On 6/25/2022 at 4:37 AM, Kit_L said:

Exactly. And I was surprised that Patrick was not more interested in what I reported on the workshop itself. The capacity to voluntarily relax the muscles when the whole body is experiencing threat (by not breathing when it's normal to, experientially) is one of the core values of what we do. 

Please re-read what you posted above with these brief remarks in mind, and if you want to ask these questions again, please ask the one that's most important to you personally, and I will do my best to address it.

Thanks, Kit! Still mulling this over.