Where to start?

[Ashton]

This might seem like a mundane or stupid question, but where do I start? There are a lot of threads and posts in the forum, and I'm a bit unsure as of where to start.

 

I have a couple of questions: 

 

I have spent some time now reading different material from your website and I mist say that I am impressed with your work.

 

I have also read an interview you did a couple of years back, and what a read that was! It just hit me in so many different ways reading about re-mapping the experience of the body and how the body adapts to what it is exposed to. Thanks a lot for that. Now for a couple of questions, if you could spare the time:

 

1. I am currently seeking to increase my flexibility as I have sadly neglected stretching for a long time. I have pretty good flexibility in my upper body. The lower body, not so much. In the sagittal plane my flexibility is good, but in the coronal plane it really sucks. Where would you suggest I start with your programs? My goal is to achieve the side splits and the pancake and I am unsure where I should start:) 

 

2. How would you adjust the stretches if I am currently inflexible? For example the first stretch in the «master the pancake» which I call an archer squat (sorry, havent learned the pose name yet), is a stretch which I experience as very difficult as my ankle ankle dorsiflexion is shit and my adductors are very stiff..in light of the remapping the experience of the body, since I experience pain and very limited mobility in this exercise, I'm afraid that it will be a experience of pain and thus the body will protect it self. 

[Nathan]

Hi Ashton,

Welcome to the forums! Perhaps you've already done this, but a good place to start is with the threads in the START HERE section  You seem to be addressing Kit directly in your post. I am not Kit, but perhaps I can help answer your questions while you wait for him to respond personally.

14 hours ago, Ashton said:

Where would you suggest I start with your programs? My goal is to achieve the side splits and the pancake and I am unsure where I should start:) 

Based on this alone, I would suggest the Master the Squat program, followed by the Master the Pancake program to start. That said, there are many entrances into the Stretch Therapy system. If you are motivated, patient, and/or prefer to read, then you could always start with the Stretching and Flexibility book, which will give you all of the tools you need. If you are not in a rush and would like to begin by exploring the ST system from a beginner's perspective, then the Absolute Beginner's Stretching Series would be an excellent place to start, regardless of whether you are actually a beginner or not. 

14 hours ago, Ashton said:

How would you adjust the stretches if I am currently inflexible? For example the first stretch in the «master the pancake» which I call an archer squat (sorry, havent learned the pose name yet), is a stretch which I experience as very difficult as my ankle ankle dorsiflexion is shit and my adductors are very stiff.

Only go as far into the stretches as you need to. Adjustments can often be made to accommodate limitations. You could place something under the heel to reduce dorsiflexion requirements, or hold on to a pole or something in front of you to allow you to sit further back, for example. Additionally, variations are often explained in the videos, and advice can be found here on the forums too: Easier variation on Skandasana and the Cossack Squat, for example. Furthermore, none of the poses/movements are mandatory. They are all options, and you should choose the ones appropriate for your current needs. For example, you may want to work on your dorsiflexion and adductors directly using other poses before using Skandasana.

I hope that helps. Please continue to explore the forums - there is tons of great info here!

Edit: Fixed a link. Thanks @Naldaramjo!

[Ashton]

33 minutes ago, Nathan said:

Hi Ashton,

 Welcome to the forums!

Thank you very much Nathan!

 

35 minutes ago, Nathan said:

Based on this alone, I would suggest the Master the Squat program, followed by the Master the Pancake program to start. That said, there are many entrances into the Stretch Therapy system. If you are motivated, patient, and/or prefer to read, then you could always start with the Stretching and Flexibility book, which will give you all of the tools you need. If you are not in a rush and would like to begin by exploring the ST system from a beginner's perspective, then the Absolute Beginner's Stretching Series would be an excellent place to start, regardless of whether you are actually a beginner or not. 

Nice. Well, here you suggest three different paths I could take. I think either the squat and pancake route or the book might the way to go. Is there really no difference in choosing the squat program + pancake mastery or the book? Since my goal is pretty specific (SS and and pancake) I would take the route which leads to my goal fastest. I'm not in a rush, well, I was hoping to start P2 (by Gold medal bodies) next summer, and I know that in order to do that  program one needs good flexibility to do the straddle L-sit and the Stalder press.  If there is no difference between the two routes then I guess I'll just have to make a choice and stick with it. 

One question though: If I choose the book, I could just to the lessons that target the areas I'm in need of getting more flexible and not follow the whole course perhaps?

52 minutes ago, Nathan said:

Furthermore, none of the poses/movements are mandatory. They are all options, and you should choose the ones appropriate for your current needs. For example, you may want to work on your dorsiflexion and adductors directly using other poses before using Skandasana.

Nice..I guess have to try out the programs:) 

Thank you for a very informative reply Nathan. I really appreciate it:)

[Nathan]

1 hour ago, Ashton said:

Is there really no difference in choosing the squat program + pancake mastery or the book?

There certainly is!

You can think of the book as the ST Bible  It covers the whole system and includes the vast majority of the stretches/poses used in the system. That said, it's an old book and the system is constantly growing and evolving, so it doesn't accurately reflect the most recent innovations. It is also text only, but there is an optional companion DVD that demonstrates many of the stretches. (Many of them can also be found on Kit's YouTube channel for free, as well.) The book is organized as a series of lessons that you can follow as-is, or use to develop your own practice.

The Mastery programs are collections of videos meant to provide a toolbox of stretches and exercises to use with the goal of achieving specific end positions and flexibility/mobility required for gymnastics/athletic(-related) performance. There is no program or routine. You are given the tools, and the implementation is up to you.

1 hour ago, Ashton said:

...leads to my goal fastest. I'm not in a rush...

 Just keep in mind that sometimes the path that looks shorter ends up taking longer. If you start with ABSS or the book, not only will you learn more about the ST system itself, you will also spend some time exploring your body and really learning about yourself and where your limitations are. The key to unlocking pancake in your body could be something that isn't in the pancake program. If money were not an option, I would say get the book and the Mastery programs, personally.

1 hour ago, Ashton said:

One question though: If I choose the book, I could just to the lessons that target the areas I'm in need of getting more flexible and not follow the whole course perhaps?

Of course! The book is not meant to define your practice. The course is simply a method of introducing the majority of the stretches in the system in a way that shows you how they might be organized and used effectively.

1 hour ago, Ashton said:

I was hoping to start P2 (by Gold medal bodies) next summer, and I know that in order to do that  program one needs good flexibility to do the straddle L-sit and the Stalder press.

One final note: keep your expectations realistic! A good pancake and side split can take years to achieve. They might come much quicker for you, but it's better to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed. One thing is certain: if you start now and remain consistent, you will be more flexible by next summer; if you do not start or fail to be consistent, you likely won't  (As an aside, lack of flexibility can often be compensated for with brute strength in gymnastics movements.)

And you're welcome! Glad I could help!

[Kit_L]

Excellent responses, @Nathan; thank you. I will add one comment: I recommend starting with either Absolute Beginner's Stretching series and/or Master the Squat—often it is physically small muscle groups that stop progress, and any novice will be tempted to skip working on these, because at your level of understanding, they do not look as thought they'd be important. Very often this is not the case,

Re. the coronal plane inflexibility you describe above: much better to describe this as "legs-apart inflexibility" IMHO; everyone understands this. And all the bent-leg variations are your fast track here, because they facilitate efficient pelvis positioning. Most of these are available free on YT.

The big difference between the written book and all the other forms of the system are the well-developed arguments in the former. No one buys videos to listen to detailed explanations when written words are so much more efficient at presenting these. Start with the videos (and all the free written material here) and get the books later if you want to get deeper into the theory and anatomy.

[Naldaramjo]

8 hours ago, Nathan said:

Only go as far into the stretches as you need to. Adjustments can often be made to accommodate limitations. You could place something under the heel to reduce dorsiflexion requirements, or hold on to a pole or something in front of you to allow you to sit further back, for example. Additionally, variations are often explained in the videos, and advice can be found here on the forums too: Easier variation on Skandasana and the Cossack Squat, for example. Furthermore, none of the poses/movements are mandatory. They are all options, and you should choose the ones appropriate for your current needs. For example, you may want to work on your dorsiflexion and adductors directly using other poses before using Skandasana.

Hi, @Nathan! Just a heads up that the link to Skandasana and the Cossack Squat leads back to the top of this post. 

[Ashton]

14 hours ago, Kit_L said:

I recommend starting with either Absolute Beginner's Stretching series and/or Master the Squat—often it is physically small muscle groups that stop progress, and any novice will be tempted to skip working on these, because at your level of understanding, they do not look as thought they'd be important. Very often this is not the case,

All right, then that's what I will do; Thank you. 

 

14 hours ago, Kit_L said:

Re. the coronal plane inflexibility you describe above: much better to describe this as "legs-apart inflexibility" IMHO; everyone understands this. And all the bent-leg variations are your fast track here, because they facilitate efficient pelvis positioning.

Yeah, I probably should have. I just remembered the word from my studies in sport science, thanks anyways for supplying me with a more commonplace word:) 

 

Thanks a lot for the response so far guys, I appreciate it very much. 

I'll start from the very beginning and try out the absolute beginners series + the master the squat and take it from there.

Cheers!