Joe's Joint

[Naldaramjo]

An exercise that has been really useful lately in activating an apparently under-stimulated part of my legs and hips:

Lie on the ground on one side (weight supported on the hip bones).
Elevate the upper leg so the upper foot is slightly higher than the hips.
Keeping the hips square (perpendicular to the floor), bring the lower leg in line with the upper leg (passing the centreline of the body). 
Repeat the motion, varying the contraction time or the angle of the lower leg at the hips (either bringing the bottom leg up in front of the upper leg or up behind the upper leg).

The contraction in the adductors and especially the groin area (pectineus?) is especially effective. This has also facilitated a better activation of the medial glute muscles during side leg raises. I guess my adductor/groin muscles were tighter than I'd thought. 

@Jim Pickles, referring to another post you made about knee pain in the rear leg during during hip flexor stretches, this his helped a lot.

 

[Naldaramjo]

Still plugging away and learning about my body as I go. Lately, this YouTube channel's content has been really helpful. A lot of unique bodyweight exercises that have helped me wake up sleepy muscles and improve my coordination!

https://www.youtube.com/user/ericwongmma

[Naldaramjo]

In preparation for a potential upcoming meditation retreat, I have been getting more diligent with my own practice. I'm not sure what it's called - Insight Meditation, I think - but it is just sitting and drawing my attention, repeatedly, unceasingly, back to my breath. 

I'd also like to practice some Samatha meditation now, even if I end up having to drop it, as per their guidelines, for the retreat. The problem is, I can't seem to do it without falling asleep!

I used many of @Kit_L's guided Samatha meditation recordings in the past, and they were helpful initially, but for some reason, I fell into a pattern of dozing off for about half of the session and so discontinued Samatha.

Does anyone have some suggestions? Has anyone else struggled similarly and found something that helped them remain in alert serenity? Cheers~

[Nathan]

5 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

I'm not sure what it's called - Insight Meditation, I think - but it is just sitting and drawing my attention, repeatedly, unceasingly, back to my breath.

Sounds like anapanasati, but it could be a lot of different things. Most vipassana (which is often translated to insight meditation) methods will use the breath as a primary object of meditation at some point, at least. Goenka starts with anapanasati. Mahasi uses the breath with noting. Thai forest traditions will use the breath with a Buddho mantra. Etc. etc.

5 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

The problem is, I can't seem to do it without falling asleep!

Sounds like you need to catch up on sleep  What are you trying to do (method)? What posture are you using (lying, sitting, standing, walking, etc.)? Have you tried eyes open? Samatha does not just mean ultra-relaxation. It's a careful balance of energy (viriya) and surrender/letting go.

[Naldaramjo]

1 hour ago, Nathan said:

Sounds like anapanasati, but it could be a lot of different things. Most vipassana (which is often translated to insight meditation) methods will use the breath as a primary object of meditation at some point, at least. Goenka starts with anapanasati. Mahasi uses the breath with noting. Thai forest traditions will use the breath with a Buddho mantra. Etc. etc.

Sounds like you need to catch up on sleep  What are you trying to do (method)? What posture are you using (lying, sitting, standing, walking, etc.)? Have you tried eyes open? Samatha does not just mean ultra-relaxation. It's a careful balance of energy (viriya) and surrender/letting go.

Ah, it is likely anapanasati then, hehe. I am just trying something and trying to make a habit of it. I've read a couple of meditation/Buddhism books, and they often overwhelm me with the details, even Mindfulness in Plain English just felt like so much to internalize. So, I am, for the moment, keeping it simple. Were I to have a teacher, or guru, or personalized guidance, I might do things differently. 

The retreat centre in Japan I'm hoping to attend (though I'm wait listed...) is Vipassana, so I guess anapanasati will be a good practice for preparation. 

~

For the Samatha meditation, I was following almost exactly Kit's instructions. So, lying on the floor, arms splayed slightly out. I haven't tried eyes open. Point well taken regarding sleep!

[Nathan]

2 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

The retreat centre in Japan I'm hoping to attend (though I'm wait listed...) is Vipassana, so I guess anapanasati will be a good practice for preparation. 

You must be referring to the Goenka centers. Are you going to Kyoto or Chiba? I feel like we've talked about this... sorry if I forgot! (Btw, I saw your message on IG and I've been meaning to respond, but I always put off responding to messages on my phone...) I went to Kyoto and it's a very nice center. And yes, the first three days are spent on the breath. After that, body scanning is used pretty much exclusively.

2 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

So, lying on the floor, arms splayed slightly out.

Well, there's your problem  Lying relaxation doesn't equate samatha meditation (although it can). Sit up in your usual meditation posture. Meditation can be done in any posture, but no reason to make it hard on yourself. Many of us tend to go to sleep when we lie down and relax deeply 

[Kit_L]

6 hours ago, Nathan said:

Sounds like you need to catch up on sleep 

Very likely. There are many reasons, but most people are sleep deprived and experience their lives as stressful. On the retreats PK and I used to run, about half the attendees could not stay awake for even half the sessions—so we suggested that they retire to their rooms and only do lying meditation and or sleep until they felt able to stay awake. This took about three days. No problem! 

It's much better to do this than to struggle with staying awake. As well, standing or walking meditation are the best forms to use if feeling sleepy is the response to sitting.

[Naldaramjo]

9 hours ago, Nathan said:

You must be referring to the Goenka centers. Are you going to Kyoto or Chiba? I feel like we've talked about this... sorry if I forgot! (Btw, I saw your message on IG and I've been meaning to respond, but I always put off responding to messages on my phone...) I went to Kyoto and it's a very nice center. And yes, the first three days are spent on the breath. After that, body scanning is used pretty much exclusively.

Well, there's your problem  Lying relaxation doesn't equate samatha meditation (although it can). Sit up in your usual meditation posture. Meditation can be done in any posture, but no reason to make it hard on yourself. Many of us tend to go to sleep when we lie down and relax deeply 

If I do go, it'll be to Kyoto. I'm not sure what chance there is of me going, though. I am first on the wait list, but I don't imagine that anyone will be cancelling...

No worries about the IG message. If the meditation retreat plan falls through, it'd be great to meet you and attend one of your workshops. I'm not sure exactly what you're offering at the moment, but I'm keen nevertheless.

Is lying down a problem? Can one completely relax in a seated posture? I think some tension must be maintained, no?
 

6 hours ago, Kit_L said:

Very likely. There are many reasons, but most people are sleep deprived and experience their lives as stressful. On the retreats PK and I used to run, about half the attendees could not stay awake for even half the sessions—so we suggested that they retire to their rooms and only do lying meditation and or sleep until they felt able to stay awake. This took about three days. No problem! 

It's much better to do this than to struggle with staying awake. As well, standing or walking meditation are the best forms to use if feeling sleepy is the response to sitting.

Do you have any guided walking meditation scripts? That's something I've never tried. I'm not sure where to start.

[Nathan]

3 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

No worries about the IG message. If the meditation retreat plan falls through, it'd be great to meet you and attend one of your workshops. I'm not sure exactly what you're offering at the moment, but I'm keen nevertheless.

I think people cancelling is not too unheard of. A lot of people try to attend as part of travels (like you are doing) and end up not being able to go, so you never know. I don't have any workshops planned at the moment, unfortunately. It became clear that I need to make a real effort to establish presence/recognition/demand in the area before classes or workshops will be successful, but I have had to fully shift my focus to paying the bills for some time, unfortunately. I'm still happy to meet up, though, so keep me updated on your plans.

3 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

Is lying down a problem? Can one completely relax in a seated posture? I think some tension must be maintained, no?

Lying down is a "problem" if it puts you to sleep. Like I said, samatha meditation does not equal lying relaxation. The goal is unification of mind (or "calm abiding," sometimes translated as "concentration"), not complete physical relaxation. This is achieved by letting go, but energy output is still required. (Letting go does not mean nothing is done, even if "you" are doing nothing ) Otherwise, we would all be masters of samatha meditation every night for several hours 

3 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

Do you have any guided walking meditation scripts? That's something I've never tried. I'm not sure where to start.

You don't need a script. Simple instructions are easy enough to find online, although they may vary slightly by what you intend to get out of it. That said, I did a quick search on Dharma Seed and found, this, for example: Walking meditation instructions for Samatha practice/concentration. If that one doesn't resonate with you, simply do another search - there are thousands of free talks/meditations on that site.

[Naldaramjo]

2 hours ago, Nathan said:

I think people cancelling is not too unheard of. A lot of people try to attend as part of travels (like you are doing) and end up not being able to go, so you never know. I don't have any workshops planned at the moment, unfortunately. It became clear that I need to make a real effort to establish presence/recognition/demand in the area before classes or workshops will be successful, but I have had to fully shift my focus to paying the bills for some time, unfortunately. I'm still happy to meet up, though, so keep me updated on your plans.

The main issue is how few spots they have available for foreigners. Japanese attendees are prioritized. There are only two foreigner spaces in my gender and age category. Fingers crossed for if one of them cancels...we'll see.

I'll be in touch about meeting up regardless. 

2 hours ago, Nathan said:

Lying down is a "problem" if it puts you to sleep. Like I said, samatha meditation does not equal lying relaxation. The goal is unification of mind (or "calm abiding," sometimes translated as "concentration"), not complete physical relaxation. This is achieved by letting go, but energy output is still required. (Letting go does not mean nothing is done, even if "you" are doing nothing ) Otherwise, we would all be masters of samatha meditation every night for several hours 

A dialectic on meditation is almost a meditation in itself! Thank you for your insight. So much to ponder in so few words.

2 hours ago, Nathan said:

You don't need a script. Simple instructions are easy enough to find online, although they may vary slightly by what you intend to get out of it. That said, I did a quick search on Dharma Seed and found, this, for example: Walking meditation instructions for Samatha practice/concentration. If that one doesn't resonate with you, simply do another search - there are thousands of free talks/meditations on that site.

Again, thank you for the guidance and suggestions. 

[Naldaramjo]

I have been moved off the wait and I am now registered for a Vipassana retreat in Kyoto, Japan, from January 28 until February 8.  

@Nathan, I know you posted about your experiences in the past. I think you mentioned that it would have been better were you to have brought your own seiza pillow. I think I'll purchase one before I head over. Do you have any recommendations? 

[Nathan]

Nice! Coldest time of the year 

I mentioned wishing I'd taken my own cushion, but that's because I'd been using it and had grown accustomed to it. If you don't have a cushion that you regularly use already, then I probably wouldn't worry about it. It will just become a question of which cushion you get used to during the retreat. They have plenty of cushions, and they even have a few seiza benches and regular chairs. They just didn't have any traditional zafu cushions, which was a bit of a surprise. I think you'll be fine with what they have, so no need to carry anything extra.

Exciting 

[Naldaramjo]

Exciting indeed, although I am quite nervous. I suppose that is something I can dwell on while I sit...

I'm slowly building up my own practice so that the retreat meditation volume isn't too much of a shock. It's still intimidating, but I feel ready for the experience. 

Nice to hear about the different options. I will have to try a few while I am there and see what works. At the moment I just sit on a small rickety wooden chair I found on the street waiting to be picked up by the garbage collectors. I was my piano chair, but since I don't have a piano anymore...

[Nathan]

The seiza benches are nice, but I think there were only 2 or 3 for the men, so grab one quickly if you want to try it. People get their area set up and keep it that way for the whole retreat, for the most part. (Everyone starts with a zabuton cushion and a smaller cushion for your bum by default.) There are lots of pads and blankets that you can put under your knees if they are suspended in the air. Grab as much as you need to feel comfortable. You're going to be sitting a lot.

Building up your sitting time is good, but with the time you have left, I would say adjusting your schedule to be similar to the retreat schedule (getting up at 4am) will be one of the best things you can do. You might try getting used to no meals after lunch too. If you're already "in the groove" when you get there, you can go straight to work. Otherwise, you might spend (waste) the first two to three days spending more effort on getting adjusted than meditating.

But most of all, don't worry. No expectations and you'll be fine.

[Naldaramjo]

No meals after lunch! Did you prepare for that in advance as well? I didn't realize that eating would be so ascetic as well. 

Did you find that, after adjusting to their schedule, you were getting enough sleep? 

[Nathan]

3 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

No meals after lunch! Did you prepare for that in advance as well? I didn't realize that eating would be so ascetic as well. 

I've done various forms of intermittent fasting for years, so there was no adjustment for me here. They serve breakfast, lunch, and then there is a "tea time" in the afternoon. First-time attendees can eat fruit during this time, but repeat attendees are limited to drinks. Personally, I never went to tea time, but used the time for showering/walking instead.

3 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

Did you find that, after adjusting to their schedule, you were getting enough sleep? 

Sure - go to sleep earlier!  I only made a point of waking up early in preparation. I went to bed as early as I felt I needed to, because I prefer to get more than 6-ish hours of sleep. You will need much less sleep when you are doing nothing but sitting meditation all day, though, so the schedule is no problem while on retreat.

[Naldaramjo]

I often go without breakfast, so I suppose it will be similar..haha...

[Naldaramjo]

In mobility news, the following stretch (solo version) has had a tremendous impact on my overall flexibility in my hips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-WMSkf-kg4

There are so many other muscles that now feel like they are working correctly (or finally working!), simply because I've made a conscious effort to relax my quads. Specifically, the outsides of my legs were incredibly tight, but I hadn't realized it because the movements that they inhibited (piriformis stretching, groin stretching, etc) did not suggest to me that they were the source of tension. After performing this stretch for a week or two now, I've also found my glute activation to be much stronger and more uniform in the belly of the muscle. 

 

[Nathan]

5 hours ago, Naldaramjo said:

In mobility news, the following stretch (solo version) has had a tremendous impact on my overall flexibility in my hips.

Yes, this is a beautiful stretch. The quads (rectus femoris) are the doorway in to deeper hip flexor stretches. I've managed to make really good HF progress without the all-powerful partner HF, and I largely attribute it to a lot of HF work with the knee angle closed.

[Kit_L]

That partner stretch is what unlocked the last part of my hip flexors. It's not just muscles: the fascial dimension in the abdomen of this combination has to be experienced to be believed; and I think 45° extension in the hip joint is easily doable, in time.

[Nathan]

5 hours ago, Kit_L said:

That partner stretch is what unlocked the last part of my hip flexors. It's not just muscles: the fascial dimension in the abdomen of this combination has to be experienced to be believed; and I think 45° extension in the hip joint is easily doable, in time.

Indeed, I may need it as I get closer to seeing-past-lives ranges  I have three or four stretch patterns that I use to attack the HF. I should take a picture of the one that gets further up into the abdomen/psoas and post it on my log. I'm still working back up to where I was previously, but it can get pretty deep/intense. Maybe I can come visit and have you sit on me and finish me off in August 

[Naldaramjo]

18 hours ago, Kit_L said:

That partner stretch is what unlocked the last part of my hip flexors. It's not just muscles: the fascial dimension in the abdomen of this combination has to be experienced to be believed; and I think 45° extension in the hip joint is easily doable, in time.

Do you mean active extension? In the front splits, one would need 90 degrees of passive extension, right? 

[Kit_L]

I have never seen active extension of more than 45° in non-contortionists; FS is achieved by this amount of extension, additional passive extension, and some anterior pelvic tilt plus hamstrings that can lengthen beyond 90° for most people. Not to mention that flexible people cheat by not having their hips square. Still, getting down at all is fine, and then the position can be re-fined (sorry about the pun!)

[Kit_L]

18 hours ago, Nathan said:

Maybe I can come visit and have you sit on me and finish me off in August 

@Nathan: you would be so very welcome!

[Naldaramjo]

21 hours ago, Nathan said:

Indeed, I may need it as I get closer to seeing-past-lives ranges  I have three or four stretch patterns that I use to attack the HF. I should take a picture of the one that gets further up into the abdomen/psoas and post it on my log. I'm still working back up to where I was previously, but it can get pretty deep/intense. Maybe I can come visit and have you sit on me and finish me off in August 

Thank god the hip flexors are so tough, eh? Can't imagine any other muscle taking such a beating...please post photos of any stretches you've found helpful.