Shaping the body; adjusting the mind

[jaja]

Lat pulldowns have been really useful for building baseline strength and establishing mind-muscle connection, but I now I can see their limits. I've experimented with negatives, but never too seriously. I should give them a proper try.

I'm not sure what should be the ideal top position, though. Shoulders down and chest in contact with the bar? Or should I just focus on the head position relative to the bar?

[Nathan]

13 hours ago, jaja said:

I'm not sure what should be the ideal top position, though. Shoulders down and chest in contact with the bar? Or should I just focus on the head position relative to the bar?

I wouldn't get too caught up on perfect scap position and all of that, but yeah, shoulders should be back (retracted) and down (depressed) at the top. It also depends on whether you're doing chin ups or pull ups, but basically aim to touch around the collar bone or just below at minimum to give you a strong top position. Realize that will be really tough, most likely. You might even start with isometric holds in that top position just to strengthen it. Then drop slowly. At first 3s or so might be all you can manage. That's fine. Try to get around 30s minimum, and rest as much as you need between sets/reps, but slowly work on reducing rest times and slowing the negatives down to around 10s. You probably have most of the strength but not so much the pattern, so I bet you'll progress really quickly!

[Kit_L]

@jaja:

Overthinking. Try this:

Strong bench in position. Hop on. Hold bar with supinated, close grip. Jump up, and hold bar wherever it lands on chest, tensing everything as hard as you can. Count, "one, two". This is the lock-off position. Lower partially, while still flexing (contracting) lats as hard as you can—point is everything is stabilised like that. Flex more, pause, lower more. only opening elbows. Hang as relaxed as you can in bottom position (huge stretch). One perfect rep is worth ten times ten poor ones. Repeat.

Wait 4–5 days, repeat. In two–three weeks, do your first chin-up.

[jaja]

On 19/5/2018 at 10:59 AM, Kit_L said:

Strong bench in position. Hop on. Hold bar with supinated, close grip. Jump up, and hold bar wherever it lands on chest, tensing everything as hard as you can. Count, "one, two". This is the lock-off position. Lower partially, while still flexing (contracting) lats as hard as you can—point is everything is stabilised like that. Flex more, pause, lower more. only opening elbows. Hang as relaxed as you can in bottom position (huge stretch). One perfect rep is worth ten times ten poor ones. Repeat.

I can do chin-ups with no problem, my issue is with pull-ups! I imagine the same strategy could be equally applied, though.

[jaja]

Today was a good day!

 

• Deadlift: 1x6x110kg + 1x7x100kg

• Seal Row: 1x7x60kg + 1x8x55kg + 1x9x50)kg

• Overhead Press: 3x10x33,5kg

• Chin-ups: 4xAMRAP

• Ankle mobility + back&HF stretching

• Grip training

Deadlifts went really good, six rep with (I think) clean form. Take a look, any critique is welcome.

Seal Rows were challenging, so much that now I'm starting to look like an actual seal while performing the exercise. I completed all the reps, though.

OHP…nice! Ok, my last set I stopped at the 8th rep, but overall I'm happy. I still need to learn how to tense properly my body.

At this point I was really tired, so I couldn't pull out a good number of chins. Max reps: 7.

I practiced pull-ups a little bit, following @Kit_L and @Nathan suggestions. To my surprise, I could keep the top position for around 3s without much trouble and then lowered myself in around 30s! Being tired, I just did 1 set of 5, but it's something I'll keep working on!

Grip training was a little bit more elaborate this time. 30s static bar holds with 78,5kg were coupled with finger curls, wrist curls (supinated and pronated) and a couple of two-handed pinch lift&hold (30s).

 

[Nathan]

Nice work! 30s is a really long negative! You'll have that pull up in no time.

[Kit_L]

9 hours ago, jaja said:

I can do chin-ups with no problem, my issue is with pull-ups! I imagine the same strategy could be equally applied, though.

@jaja: How many can you do? If pull-ups are problem, it's because brachialis and brachioradialis are not strong enough to oppose biceps' supinating force—very common. I can explain, but take this as fact. Do chin-ups instead! Lean back from the first slow part of the pull (to emphasise the lats), and pull the bar to your waist, not chest (in the mind's intention, at least).

Many great bodybuilders have built real strength with chins, then weighted chins. Work up to three sets of eight before adding weight.

Re. your seal rows: try them supinated, too; this was Dorian Yeates' favourite back exercise, again bulling the bar to the waist, not chest. As well, for maximum benefit, these must start from a full hand (stretch) position.

[jaja]

57 minutes ago, Kit_L said:

How many can you do?

When rested, I can do 10 reps. I already train chin-ups, currently I can do 7 reps with 3,75kg at my belt. Far from impressive, but when I started I couldn’t do 5 reps of BW chin-ups.

Chin-ups are great, but I want to improve my pull-ups because they are more useful in the “real world” (not joking, last week I faced a situation were that movement would have been handy). I don’t know if it makes sense, but my goal is to become “useful” to myself.

Ideally I’d like to be strong, supple and mobile. Right now I’m focusing a little more on strength because it’s easier to attain. I’m using weights because of efficiency and train mostly compound lifts because they are “primal” movements performed using the whole body. Anyway, sooner or later I’d like to throw in some skill work, working my way to handstands

 

1 hour ago, Kit_L said:

your seal rows: try them supinated, too

Can I ask why? Pronated hand position engage more the upper back.

Thank you for the feedback!

[jaja]

1 hour ago, Kit_L said:

If pull-ups are problem, it's because brachialis and brachioradialis are not strong enough to oppose biceps' supinating force—very common.

Oh I’d love a brief explanation for this!

[Nathan]

6 hours ago, jaja said:

Oh I’d love a brief explanation for this!

A (relatively) weak brachioradialis is why most non-climbers can do more chin ups than pull ups. From here:

Quote

However, the pronated grip of the pull-up places the short head of the biceps in its second mechanical compromise. Despite the short heads less than ideal positioning, it still delivers torque through the elbow, just not to its full potential. It’s the brachioradialis that is much more involved with the overhand grip of the chin-up. However, unlike the biceps or brachialis, the brachioradialis can never approach 90 degrees to the forearm (100% rotary and 0% stabilizing) and always has a small angle of pull relative (never exceeding 45 degrees) to the other elbow flexors. Although the brachioradialis is not as powerful, it will however take up the slack when the biceps are in a compromised mechanical advantage (eg: forearms pronated).

However, your lats will always be the prime movers, and the biceps will always be contributing a large amount too. The fact that you can do a reasonable number of chin ups and not a single pull up probably means that your body needs to learn the pattern, and negatives will help with that. I think you'll get the pull up quickly, but then you'll have to work on strengthening the brachioradialis, etc. before you can approach your chin up numbers.

[jaja]

Just finished a really intense stretching session. “Intense” not because I did something extraordinary, but simply because it's been relatively long since the last time I had a deep stretch. Of course I targeted the HF (partner, three times), but I enjoyed the most playing with the baby whale — I should backbend daily, but of course I forget. Took also care of my neck and maybe overdid a bit with the adductors.

Overall I feel really good! Only bad news is I keep neglecting my piriformi, even though I know they need care.

[jaja]

Funny thing happened today at the gym. After I was done benching a relatively comfortable weight, a guy told me I was lifting wrong and the form I use is not only dangerous for my back, but it also doesn't allow me to properly target my chest. Why? Well…because I was arching. I told him it's actually the correct way to perform the exercise and it's a technique used by powerlifters. Yet he was really confident about his opinion and started rambling nonsense such as “you have to use your strength, not a technique”, “training is not the same as competing” etc etc. At some point he asked a personal trainer to say a word about the topic and guess what? I was right!

Moral of the story is: if someone is really confident it doesn't necessarily mean he's right. Also: auctoritas holds more value than logic, sadly.

• Squat: 1x8x98,5kg + 1x9x88,5kg + 1x10x78,5kg

• Bench: AMSAPx5x71kg

• Chin-ups: 1x8xBW+3,75kg + 1x9xBW

• Overhead Press: 1x6x38,5kg + 1x7x36kg + 1x8x33,5kg

• Grip training

Remember when last week I wrote that squatting felt easy? Well, today it felt hard and couldn't increase my reps. I don't know if it was because my form was sloppy or because I wasn't in a good mood, but I suspect the lack of dorsiflexion is taking its toll. Since the squat is the only movement (beside DL) I'm not training twice a week, I'll try accumulating volume by adding a “light” session before deadlifting. Let's see how it goes.

Bench was easy, but I couldn't really test my limit because of the aforementioned guy.

Tried to apply @Kit_L's cues and they wen good, although I lost a little bit of form during my last two reps.

OHP…oh boy they it was hard, but i succeeded! I squeezed every drop of juice out and performed all the reps! I also realized what my weak link is: the bum. Sometimes during the phases of most effort (and/or at the top of the movement) I relax them without even notice. I don't know if hip thrusts will be enough to fix this. I suspect the issue is related to my APT and therefore to my HF.

A little note too end today's log. I noticed my feet are getting muscular too: the arch is notably more defined and feels harder at the touch. Interestingly, like everything in my body, the right side is weaker or at least less defined (right leg is shorter and was injured years ago). Anyway, I consider this result directly related to wearing Vibram's Five Fingers while training.

[Kit_L]

There's more to the chin-up vs. pull-up difference than brachialis and brachioradialis. 

Pronator teres and pronator quadratus are the muscles that directly oppose biceps' supination of the wrist and hand (and this necessary opposition needed to do pull-ups is why rock climbers have such amazing forearms: the "milk-bottle muscle"). This opposition is needed to even start to flex the elbows in the pull-up movement. Pull-ups are more difficult for most people who are not naturally strong in the forearms, and/or do not have a manual work background.

Reverse curls can help, as can pull-ups themselves. But many people who are weak in this movement find that training pull-ups leads to elbow pain (medial side of forearm). Rope chins are an excellent in-between movement.

I like chin-ups personally, because I can engage the back muscles more strongly (because when supinated grip is used, biceps' strength as elbow flexor is much greater than the other two flexor's strengths combined. There's more, but I need to get on to other things!

 

[jaja]

Please, write as long as you want because your knowledge is gold. As I stated in the first post of the thread, my general goal is repatterning and this means I especially need to address my weak links. Lats were one of those, so I really focused on their activation and now are in much better shape. Forearms are another body part I have to take care of, that's why I'm incorporating grip training into my routine. Speaking of which…last time I had a diffuse burning sensation while doing standing supinated wrist curls (at the end of the ROM), I suspect they need a decent stretch.

[jaja]

• Bench: 1x7x78,5kg + 1x8x71kg + 1x9x63,5kg

• Pendlay Row: 1x8x52,5kg + 1x9x47,5kg + 1x10x45kg

• Negative pull-ups: 3x5x15s

• Hip Thrust: 1x8x68,5kg + 1x9x63,5kg +1x810x58,5kg

• Grip training

I completed the first set, but I suspect my spotter was helping a bit, also I couldn't do the last rep of my second set. According to my progression, I should still increase the rep number, next time…but I don't feel confident. I think I'll keep it this way for one more session.

Pendlay rows went good. Maaaaybe I gained a little bit of momentum during the last rep of my first set, though.

Negatives instead of lat pulldowns…let's see how this goes! I'm realizing I lack a fair bit of strength at the top position. I want to improve that, because my end goal is to perform a muscle-up. EDIT: I'm now realizing I forgot to try rope chin-ups…well…next time…

Hip thrusts were easy, I'm not even close to my 1RM. Since my glutes are not that weak, I wonder why I've trouble to properly activate them during some exercises.

Trying to do a little bit of grip training after every workout: right now forearms are definitely my weakest link.

[jaja]

Oh boy, what a bad training I just had: nearly everything stalled. I opened the session with light squats and found that I probably need to fix something about my form, but I don't know what…I need to record me, next time.

Deadlifts were jeopardized by sweaty hands, I'm going to buy chalk.

Seal Rows: failed last rep of first set.

OHP: fully completed only 1 set out of 3.

Unimpressive number of chins.

It's the first time a training session goes so bad, and the first time I stall on deadlifts. Maybe it was the heat, maybe lack of sleep or something similar.

Maybe it's time to open a thread about ankle mobility, I'm facing some specific issues.

[Pat (pogo69)]

On 5/27/2018 at 1:02 AM, jaja said:

I need to record me, next time.

Absolutely.  I've given away heavy squatting for now, after filming myself, and seeing my left knee caving in on the concentric.

My partner noticed it first, and pondered whether I should decrease the weight and work on fixing the valgus knee.  I got all defensive about it... until I saw it for myself.  The worst part of it was having to apologise and tell her she was right, but at least now I can work on the deficits.

On 5/27/2018 at 1:02 AM, jaja said:

Deadlifts were jeopardized by sweaty hands, I'm going to buy chalk.

You won't be sorry; and after you've tried it, you'll never want to deadlift without it.

[jaja]

18 hours ago, pogo69 said:

The worst part of it was having to apologise and tell her she was right, but at least now I can work on the deficits.

Ahaha ego is a bitch!

I didn't film myself today because I forgot my tripod. Luckily it went a lot better, though! It was the most intense training session ever: I had to rush because of a later appointment; I also performed squats and bench side-by-side!

• Squat: 1x8x98,5kg + 1x9x88,5kg + 1x10x78,5kg + 1x11x71kg
• Bench: AMSAPx5x71kg
• Chin-ups: 1x6xBW+5kg + 1x7xBW
• Overhead Press: 1x7x38,5kg + 1x8x36kg + 1x9x33,5kg

I completed ALL the reps of ALL the squat sets. My form was not perfect, I can tell I try too ofter to drive the weight with my torso instead of using only the hips. Also, the padding under the heels compromise my balance. Overall I did good, especially considering that I was alternating sets with the bench press. Funny side note: I have a better position under the bar when I don't think too much and just throw myself under it.

Reached 4 sets of bench.

Chin-ups where…well…not really easy, but I didn't struggle too much.

OHP is a bitch, really. I failed the last rep of every set. I could blame it on fatigue (which certainly played a role), but still this exercise is my black beast.

[jaja]

• Bench: 1x7x78,5kg + 1x8x71kg + 1x9x63,5kg
• Pendlay Row: 1x6x55kg + 1x7x50kg + 1x8x47,5kg
• Negative pull-ups: 3x5x15s
• Hip Thrust: 1x8x68,5kg + 1x7x63,5kg +1x8x58,5kg

Didn't feel really secure while benching 78kg and had to do shame-rolling under the 71kg loaded barbell. I'm going to keep the same number of reps for another week, at least.

Rows ok.

After performing the negative pull-ups I tried to do a regular one and succeeded! I managed to get my chin over the bar, but did't touch it with my chest, does it still count? Next time I'll film me to check my form.

Hip Thrusts ok.

After the session I did a little bit of grip training and then messed around with the equipment to do mobility drills and some experimentations. Among other things, I did few chin-ups at the rings, maybe they could be a nice upgrade to my routine.

Yesterday I checked my feet and noticed they are indeed getting muscular (mainly at the arch), but it's way more noticeable on my left one, probably because of my LLD. Is there a way to fix muscular imbalances?

[Nathan]

46 minutes ago, jaja said:

I managed to get my chin over the bar, but did't touch it with my chest, does it still count?

Sure, if your ego needs it to 

47 minutes ago, jaja said:

Among other things, I did few chin-ups at the rings, maybe they could be a nice upgrade to my routine.

Rings are really nice for chin ups because you can start in a pull up position and then turn the hands in during the pull so that you end up in the chin up position. They feel a lot nicer since your arms are allowed to rotate naturally, as needed.

50 minutes ago, jaja said:

Yesterday I checked my feet and noticed they are indeed getting muscular (mainly at the arch), but it's way more noticeable on my left one, probably because of my LLD. Is there a way to fix muscular imbalances?

A better question is: do you need to fix it? If one foot is more muscular because it is compensating for a LLD (and assuming your LLD is not going to magically disappear), is that not a good thing? It's stronger because it needs to be. We are not symmetrical creatures. That said, you can try to incorporate more unilateral leg work and do a bit extra on the right side if it bothers you!

[jaja]

1 hour ago, Nathan said:

A better question is: do you need to fix it? If one foot is more muscular because it is compensating for a LLD (and assuming your LLD is not going to magically disappear), is that not a good thing? It's stronger because it needs to be. We are not symmetrical creatures. That said, you can try to incorporate more unilateral leg work and do a bit extra on the right side if it bothers you!

Good point! I'm not concerned with symmetry, but I suspect my right leg is weaker that it should be. Especially considering I had a surgery, years ago, and I need strong muscles to protect my knee.

[Nathan]

In that case, I know you're doing RPT so you probably want to stick with your big lifts, but there's nothing wrong with adding some unilateral accessory leg work. It will help create stability in a way that is difficult to do with the big bilateral lifts too, and if your knee is unstable then that can only help. But you need to be careful and start easy, of course. Squats and deadlifts can both be done unilaterally, and can be built up to pretty impressive weights done that way too. You don't have to go with the usual pistols, though. Bulgarian split squats, Cossack squats, deep box squats, etc. are all great variations and don't require as much dorsiflexion, which I know you're working on.

[jaja]

I remember I used to like Bulgarian split squats, so I might really give them a go. Thanks for your suggestions!

[jaja]

I'm now the guy leaving chalk trails around my gym…ehehe. Jokes aside, I've bought a bottle of liquid chalk and it's really doing its job!

• Squat: 4x6x68,5kg
• Deadlift: 1x7x110kg + 1x8x100kg
• Seal Row: 1x8x60kg + 1x9x55kg + 1x10x50kg
• Overhead Press: 3x10x33,5kg
• Chin-ups: 4xAMRAP

Squats went quite flawless, much better than last time.

Deads: no issues with my hands, thanks to chalk, but the hook grip hit hard on my thumbs. Maybe I'll have to protect them with bends, sooner or later.

Seal Rows went good, I even alternated them with the OHP without problems. Last reps are challenging, though: I really resemble a seal flapping on ice!

OHP: really good, but I couldn't perform the very last rep.

Chin-ups: max 8, min 6. I'm kinda stuck with rep numbers, but on the bright side I'm getting better at keeping them constant throughout the exercise. So…progress, I guess? One thing for sure: doing 4xAMRAP is really helping me improving my weighted chins.

[Nathan]

52 minutes ago, jaja said:

Deads: no issues with my hands, thanks to chalk, but the hook grip hit hard on my thumbs. Maybe I'll have to protect them with bends, sooner or later.

I figured you were pulling double overhand when we were talking about chalk. I've never really used hook grip, but it sounds painful. Was "bends" supposed to be straps? Straps may be a good alternative if your grip is still limiting you. You could always use them on your top set, and then drop them for lighter sets to work your grip more.

56 minutes ago, jaja said:

I'm kinda stuck with rep numbers

A lot of people hit a plateau with chin numbers, and volume usually helps. Stick with it for a while, but if nothing is changing then try adding a set or two. Also, you need to decide whether you're interested in getting stronger or more efficient. You don't really need to be doing more than 8-10 reps if you're interested in strength. It's probably better to start weighting them at that point.