Squat in a Neutral Pelvis Position

[lordcenturion]

Hi everyone,

I have a very very specific question to ask you. I've been reading this article on "understanding pelvic tilt." And somewhere in the article they recommend that you do the following (For fixing your anterior pelvic tilt):

Quote

use the deep abdominal muscles to lift the front of the pelvis upwards while keeping the gluteal muscles relaxed. This is one of the actions of uddiyana bandha -- to lift and support the hips in a neutral positon. Then, use the pelvic floor muscles to subtly draw the pubic bone and the coccyx together and gently down. This is a very subtle movement, almost a sensation of heaviness. 

They say that it's best to do this while relaxing the gluteal muscles, which I don't understand how that is even possible. Also I have no idea on how to bring together my coccyx and pubic bone by using my pelvic floor muscles. Does anybody understand what is being said here, and how to do it?

PS: I know there are a lot of threads on how to fix your anterior pelvic tilt. Kit's videos on youtube have been nothing short of miraculous. But I'd just love to understand the meaning of this quote and I thought  maybe in this forum of experts someone could help me shed some light on this mistery. 

So thank you to whoever answers this. It is greatly appreciated.

 

My Best Regards

 

Claude Borel

[Jim Pickles]

Is this an article in Yoga International on pelvic tilt that you are referring to? One came out a few days ago that had a lot of confusion mixed among the sense. This tells me that there is a lot of misinformation about pelvic tilt out there in the yoga world.

However, "bring together my coccyx and pubic bone" - of course you cant, these are part of the bony pelvic girdle and are fixed in relation to each other. What they must mean is the feeling "as though you are" doing that, and that means contracting the pelvic floor muscles. Maybe that is a stronger sensation in women than in men. To me, however, the main way of fixing the anterior pelvic tilt (which which I assume they mean lifting the front of the pelvis) is to use the transversus abdominis. Of course it is difficult to learn to use this consciously if you do not know how to do it already. Yes, it is a good idea for the glutes to be relaxed, but myself I cant comment on whether contraction here is likely to be a limiting issue in most people trying to lift the front of the pelvis. In most people, tight hip flexors are likely to be the (or a) major contributor to an anterior pelvic tilt.

[lordcenturion]

Is the transversus abdominis activated by sucking in your stomach, or by blowing it out? I can't tell which one lifts my pelvis for some reason. 

[Olga]

Hi guys, I am a Pilates instructor: TA, pelvic floor and other deep core stabilisers are my bread and butter )))

Here is an article that I sent to a client of mine recently that explains these muscles, and how to train them

http://dianelee.ca/article-training-deep-core-muscles.php

Otherwise there is a whole Pilates curriculum all about TA and Pelvic Floor. whole workshops on Pelvic floor

[Olga]

On the "fixing the anterior pelvic tilt", one must first understand what caused it. The postural deviation never comes alone, your body must have compensated somewhere else. Do not fix only one thing at a time and by doing only one exercise.

The neutral pelvis is loved by Pilates teachers because this is where your TA activation is strongest -and the TA, together with pelvic floor, diaphragm and multifidi (google... important spine stabiliser) are your deepest core stabiliser muscles. 

TA works in conjunction with pelvic floor muscles - we say they "co-contract".

[lordcenturion]

Do you have a tip on how to lower yourself in a neutral pelvic position while squatting? I've seen people say that inhaling air into your stomach and then squeezing your abs was a good way. I did that but it didn't really work for me, or I did it wrong. 

[AshwinT]

It's called the valsalva manoeuvre in weightlifting circles.  Here's a short video on breathing and bracing.

 

[lordcenturion]

Thanks, it helped a bit. What's stange is that my knees feel unlocked. It's like if there were no muscles around my knees, which makes the knee joint overly loose. From what ive been able to gather, this is caused by my knees caving in during the bottom of the squat. Essentialy, all my weight ends up on the inside of my foot, along the big toe. There's a lack of external rotation in my hips. Like this (except less noticeable): https://childdevelopmentresources.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/legtorsions.jpg

 

Is there a way to compensate for this deficiency while squatting? Wider stance maybe? Feet turned outwards a little? I feel like I want someone to kick my pelvis into position from behind, to just open up those hips. 

 

Thanks

[jaja]

On 6/11/2017 at 10:13 PM, Olga said:

On the "fixing the anterior pelvic tilt", one must first understand what caused it. The postural deviation never comes alone, your body must have compensated somewhere else. Do not fix only one thing at a time and by doing only one exercise.

Could you please expand on that?

[Olga]

@jaja

How the bad position of the pelvis creates postural compensations elsewhere in the body? Try a very simple experiment: stand straight in an ideal posture (neutral pelvis etc, joints aligned with the vertical plumb line - see link below), then:

- tilt pelvis forward (anterior tilt) while trying to stand upright: your body will have to adjust the upper spine (most likely, by increasing the thoracic curve ie chest will push back) - and to compensate for that, the head will have to come forward. So we will get a typical kythotic-lordotic posture with head forward

https://sgphysio.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/kendalls-postural-types/

- hips, knees, ankle joints/feet position will adjust too, but that's going into a lot of details... a good physiotherapy website would mention those

That's in a nutshell what I meant. The anterior pelvic tilt is a part of a bigger picture of the imbalances in the body, and even though fixing it may be the key, other body parts must be trained to return to their ideal functioning. Some stretching will be required as well as strengthening. For eg, modern physiotherapists seem to blame tight hip flexors (sitting) for the anterior pelvic tilt, so these needs to be stretched first. Then weakened muscles (glutes, abs) need to be strengthened. The rest of the body would benefit from the corrective exercise too: learning to avoid forward head position, for example.

Each exercise must be performed in the ideal alignment paying attention to the position of all key joints so that the body does not start compensating for the lack of balance in one place with creating new imbalances in another. That's mostly what I teach when I teach exercise.

[jaja]

@Olga Since you seem to have a lot of knowledge about apt, would you mind to share some strength exercises useful to fix it? I'm stretching my HF almost daily, my glute strength is improving and I'm working on ankle dorsiflexion (possible cause of the problem); I still have a lot of work to do on my core, though. Pelvic floor strength is especially lacking.

Anyway I'm not overlooking my upper-body: I'm taking care of neck muscles, pec minors, diaphragm (through passive bends) and overall I'm strengthening the whole posterior chain. As you said, on should focus on the body in its entirety.

[Olga]

@jaja Start here http://dianelee.ca/article-training-deep-core-muscles.php#pfm (Pelfic Floor)

and then TA http://dianelee.ca/article-training-deep-core-muscles.php#transversus

these are good explainations and exercises that follow them. Because you are training very deep core stabilisers, it should feel more like fine-tuning the body (getting the feel of those muscles to learn to activate them) than strength-training. In fact, in my classes I use very light resistance but lots of instability in the exercise to train deep core. 

Here are my own:

My favourite is lying down on a foam roller (spine alongside it) and lifting arms/legs/arms and legs maintaning neutral spine position.

For pelvic floor, sitting on a Gymnastic ball and activating PF (elevator exercises) is classic. For PF+TA together, stay seated in neutral and lift legs off floor, maintaining neutral (instability again).

Hope this is clear?

[Kit_L]

For most people, the main deep cause of anterior pelvic tilt (APT) is tight hip flexors. And rectus femoris is the main culprit. Lie down relaxed with your legs outstretched, face up. If you cannot press the lower back to the floor with a small abdominal effort without the thighs coming off the floor, then your HFs are too tight.

The body organises itself over the feet in the vertical load-bearing position. If there's an APT, the erector spinae and neck extensors do work to pull the trunk back over the balance point; your habitual posture is the result.

On workshops, many attendees have palpated my back muscles when standing: they are completely soft—because my HFs are loose, no effort is required in these muscles while standing and low tension is the result.

Working on the partner hip flexor (free on my YouTube channel, below) will rectify this in time.

Once the pelvis is sitting more neutrally (less lumbar extension) then all of Olga's suggestions will be immeasurably easier to implement.

@lordcenturion: it's clear from your questions that you are a beginner; and that's great, we all have to start somewhere. Squatting efficiently is a high-skill activity, and needs to be done properly to avoid injury. Please take yourself to a weightlifting gym and ask for some assistance. The benefits will be huge.

@jaja: with respect to my learned colleagues, in my experience APT cannot be 'fixed' by strength training. Limber your HFs daily if you wish, but a once-a-week, even once-a-fortnight, strong partner HF stretch will be a much faster approach over time to changing your spinal/pelvic alignment.

 

There is NO substitute for this, unfortunately. 

[jaja]

On 11/12/2017 at 8:28 AM, Olga said:

@jaja Start here http://dianelee.ca/article-training-deep-core-muscles.php#pfm (Pelfic Floor)

and then TA http://dianelee.ca/article-training-deep-core-muscles.php#transversus

I've already read those pages, but I don't find the instructions easy to follow. I'll experiment a little bit and then report.

 

@Kit_L Is Liv's slow flow a good substitute for the partner stretch? Anyway, thanks to my girlfriend, I'm doing weekly the version where I rest my elbows on a chair, since I find it more comfortable for my foreword leg. I probably need a heavier partner, though.

Fun fact: today I was at the gym, limbering around, and I asked a random girl to assist me in a HF stretch. The dialogue went like this:

- “No, I can't sit there”

- “Really?! Why not?”

- “No, I can't” *leaves the room*

It's not that easy to find partners.

 

I don't know if strength training can of cannot fix APT, but I know I'm benefitting hugely by training my glutes and I badly need to properly train my core too. Those muscles really helps to alleviate lower back strain.

I suspect my stiff ankles have a lot to do with my APT, though. The right one in particular sometimes feels like “blocked” and I'm actually worried. As for now, ankle mobility is the only domain where I didn't get any progress.

[Kit_L]

@jaja next time, ask a random big guy, just like you'd ask for a spot, if you were lifting something heavy.

3 hours ago, jaja said:

I don't know if strength training [can of] cannot fix APT, but I know I'm benefitting hugely by training my glutes and I badly need to properly train my core too. Those muscles really helps to alleviate lower back strain.

There are great benefits to training the glutes (what methods are you using, BTW?), but the need to specifically train the core to alleviate back strain comes from tight hip flexors. Liv's slow Flow will help many women, in my experience, but not as many tight men (because more women can become flexible by simply relaxing into a position), and this restriction probably comes from men's greater fascial tension, too.

Get creative and find someone heavy! Good luck.

[jaja]

17 hours ago, Kit_L said:

what methods are you using, BTW?

Nothing fancy.

I use few drills I learned at Dave's workshop to learn how to activate my glutes and I apply those clues when I train at the gym — especially while deadlifting. I also throw in the mix glute bridges, hip thrusts (bodyweight) and this exercise of yours.