Relearning How To Walk

[Kit_L]

15 hours ago, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

quod negotium poscebat

And this means?

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

Oh man you’ll have to forgive me that one. “As a matter of course.” 

I’ve been reading too much Edmund Morris lately, and have a habit of trying out new terms learned from reading in my writing :).

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

So for whatever reason I was only doing the wall version of the Pec Stretch w/ Fascial Dimension (MtShoulder - E2) and not the floor version; that is, until we did the floor version in Vancouver. The floor version now feels more controllable as I can add more/less pressure in a multitude of angles with the aid of gravity. My shoulder extension has really been seeing great improvements in ROM after >6mo of focus on them. Now working on hanging from a bar at the playground or a tree limb, pulling self with shoulder/pec complex muscles through arms (extending shoulders as much as possible).

Also still working on lats ROM by laying on the floor with arms wide overhead and moving them slowly narrower towards my ears, maintaining straight arms/raised shoulders. Puts quite a bit of stretch and I can really micro-manage the depth and do some pulsing. Sometimes I use a stick to have an extra tactile cue for my hands (and it gives me something to bear down on like I would do from a bar/tree limb). I like this version (compared to, say, the wall version) as I build strength in this position with the aid of gravity (plus I can feel the lumbar spine pressed into the ground, a nice cue to avoid lumbar-extending as a 'false positive' increase in shoulder ROM).

The hamstrings are finally starting to open up more and even had a fun moment the other day with a significant ROM increase after a C-R sequence, probably a full 15 degrees deeper.

Interesting lateral imbalances: hip flexor ROM R>L, hamstrings ROM L>R. 

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

Spontaneously decided to try a "new" (for me) stretch. Laying prone on the ground after doing Pec Stretches, I moved my leg slowly into the squashed frog motif. Obviously I knew there would be quite the limitation in the depth. It was fun to approach the position from the opposite end of the starting position than the traditional all-fours (knees/hands) end of the spectrum. This 'alternate' version was interesting as I was able to start with my groin against the ground and work until the groin was starting to lift. This instead of the squashed frog approach wherein one attempts to progressively allow the hips to open laterally. I'll probably keep messing with this approach whenever squashed frog just isn't on the menu any given day.

Boxing the compass is definitely now in the AM limbering routine; such a nice way to wake the hips up too. I'm enjoying how doing relaxed lunge automatically allows me to simply press-back with the anterior leg into lunge hamstring.  

Interesting finding lately is that the Pec Stretch w/ fascial dimension on the ground really allows 2-3 different lines of stretch for me. When I've recently done a bouldering session and do this stretch, I find that I need not go very deep at all (very early in the position) and I'm getting a nice lightly tingling stretch sensation along the bicep/tricep into the medial epicondyle. Once that settles down and feels relaxed, I can go much deeper to stretch the shoulder joint itself.

[Kit_L]

On 9/14/2018 at 7:00 PM, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

This 'alternate' version was interesting as I was able to start with my groin against the ground and work until the groin was starting to lift. 

That's extremely interesting; I would love a Q&D* video of that, if you can find the time.

On 9/14/2018 at 7:00 PM, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

Interesting finding lately is that the Pec Stretch w/ fascial dimension on the ground really allows 2-3 different lines of stretch for me.

Agree completely. What we say on the workshops is "this is the template; for most people this will be the tightest line, but feel free to explore all the other potential lines."

*Quick and dirty—like a phone video!

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

19 hours ago, Kit_L said:

*Quick and dirty—like a phone video!

Sure here's my very embarrassing Q&D in my hotel room, very spontaneous and very inflexible!

 

[Kit_L]

Now I understand, and I am sure this will be useful. Please let us know it it helps; I will try this when I get home (we leave the UK today).

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

@oliviaa since the Vancouver seminar I’ve made significant progress in my advanced piriformis stretch: nearly groin to the ground! Have a bit of posterior hip needed to pull more “square” so going to use a shorter bolster than the one I was using for months.

It feels like I could sit more upright to sink the splaying of the thighs deeper (using gravity to push directly down): thoughts on that? Thank you!

[Nathan]

Hey! Not Liv, but I just wanted to mention that you don't want to get caught in the trap of thinking this is a hip flexor stretch. Of course it can (and will) stretch the hip flexors of the back leg as a result of positioning, but that is merely a bonus! You can get a massive piriformis stretch without putting the HF into much of a stretch.

My advice would be to go back to a higher bolster and forget about groin to ground. Rather, focus on shifting the higher hip down (not to get a HF stretch, but to strengthen the piriformis stretch, hence a higher bolster to relieve the stretch on the back HF), as well as thinking about bringing it forward while pushing the opposite hip (on the bolster) back - so a twisting, squaring motion. Once you have done that and feel you need more for the piriformis, take the center line of your torso (so not just your shoulders) out toward the front foot.

Give it a shot and let us know how it goes!

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

That’s awesome @Nathan! Thanks for the advice about the bolster for the back leg; never considered that.

edit: I see what you mean in re-reading and trying it out: bolster in front leg but twisting back hip forward. Got it (I think haha)

Edited October 7, 2018 by mytype1collagenis2tight

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

Definitely hit on something I didn't even consider a potential issue. Now that my pike is getting deeper from excellent persistence with the progressions, I can go deeper in the Jefferson Curl as well. HOWEVER, this had the unfortunate side effect of leading to me pulling my lumbar yesterday, reactivating 'stopping' aches when attempting to bend over periodically today. 

Basically, my hypothesis is that as I've progressively increased the weight on the JC, I've also (simultaneously) been having a notable inc in ROM for the end JC position (which is very pike-y). I guess I have two routes (well three really, but the third option of "injure myself again" I'll forfeit willingly): 1) decrease the total ROM on the JC or 2) decrease the weight and maintain ROM. I'm favoring the latter as I'm theorizing that it would be better to have my entire spinal 'chain' smoothly and equally strong throughout the entire folding/unfolding process. 

The pancake progress is so slow but notable as I can finally sit upright on the floor with my knees bent and no back slump. This is huge for me. I took note at Vancouver ST workshop that my inner thigh muscles would fatigue quickly doing PNFs in this position, but the endurance is improving and the movement is progressing. 

The lying pec minor is still my favorite of all right now, especially with the recent re-embracing of bouldering.

[Nathan]

16 minutes ago, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

1) decrease the total ROM on the JC or 2) decrease the weight and maintain ROM. I'm favoring the latter...

Definitely the latter, I would say. However, you need to ask yourself: why are you doing JC? (And is it the best way to achieve that?) That will give you your answer. Regarding the JC, there are good arguments on both sides for whether or not the movement should be heavily weighted. Honestly, the vast majority of people probably don't need to use much weight. Again, it depends on why you're using the movement too, but Emmet doesn't recommend pushing past half-bodyweight IIRC, and Steven Low recommends using as little weight as possible to get an increase in ROM and then reducing that to unweighted when possible.

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

13 hours ago, Nathan said:

why are you doing JC?

Great question. This is certainly a GB carryover; initially it seemed to be helping my lower back strains. Though I think you're right about this one, it seems to have not had as much obvious help above 15# (I've been at 25# the last couple months; progressively increasing by 5# every 3-4 months simply through the GB protocol and not any real, personal reason). I do think it has some benefit to my pike though and I like your reference to Steven Low's idea about using minimal for increased ROM. 

@Nathan congrats on earning your ST Teacher! You've been an enormous help to me personally on this forum; I'm grateful for that. Others will certainly be lucky to train directly with you.

[Nathan]

5 hours ago, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

congrats on earning your ST Teacher!

Thank you! And thank you very much for the kind words!

5 hours ago, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

not any real, personal reason

This is very often the case with movements like these. I took the JC up to around 60 lbs IIRC, but in the end I decided that my limited training resources (time/energy) were better devoted elsewhere. There are high-level athletes that could legitimately benefit from a very heavy JC, but for most of us the risk/benefit ratio is simply not that great. I would suggest that sumo deadlifts (which stress the back much less than conventional due to the more upright stance), slowly worked up to a respectable load, would be much better for your lower back (and much more).

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

Huge post so I can reference it later. 

Incurring injuries offers excellent opportunity to reflect on my entire training regimen. I've had the opportunity to step back from my training a bit with the lower back and elbow rehab lately, as well as a nice sojourn to Vancouver (Squamish is a hell of a place to take in beauty and forget your broken body parts for a while: bald eagles feasting on salmon, seals swimming up a river to do the same).

So to construct positive learning from my injurious disposition, I'm sensing that I have an imbalance in my core that I've possibly made worse by not applying principles of antagonistic muscle groups. Spent many years doing off/on crunches upon crunches, as well as oblique and quads strengthening; yet, my hip/gluteal extension was grossly under-trained. I'm starting to sense that doing all this hollow-body hold without hip/spine extension training has contributed further to my lower back straining. In a correlative manner, the relative limitations in progressing my hollow body holds I sense (though am not certain) may also be related to the lack of strength in my hip extension as a stabilizing base.

I may be incorrect in this line of reasoning, but I've noticed that despite the extensive hip flexor/hamstring stretching work, "back mobility" (now nixing the JC curl), and such, I still get that pulling sensation slightly at times after doing hollow body hold workouts. To whit, Steven from Overcoming Gravity gave me a nice reference for lower-back "pulls" and the reverse hypers (basically the antagonist movement for the PPT and lower abdominal contractions of the hollow body) have helped a lot since my injury. http://stevenlow.org/low-back-pain-from-crippled-to-100-in-10-days/ 

Anyways, this is my simple algebra for guessing that just as eccentrics aid in recovery from tendonitis, that my lack of focus on these antagonistic maneuvers may be contributing somewhat to my lower back pulling at times. Balancing forces, right? I mean, I have a LONG way to go with my mobility yet I am definitely the most limber I've been since high school just through the ST work of the last couple years. I'm starting to think my lower back aches post-workout are related to a much stronger 'anterior pull' relative to the 'posterior pull.'

Or as @Nathan said: sumo deadlifts!

[Nathan]

Hollow body holds are simply one piece of the bodyline puzzle. If you are doing them, you should also be doing the fish and arch holds as well. See this great ST Monkey Gym reference (which is free!). If you don't already have it, you might also want to grab Master the Full Back Bend, and Arch Body Hold, which includes a 15+ minute video in which Olivia takes you through all of the arch body hold cues and other details for proper execution.

What you describe is very common. Most people spend a lot of time training the front of their body and forget all about the back. Out of sight, out of mind, right?  No worries. You've taken the first big step by noticing. Now you just have to take action! 

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

I've been doing quite a bit of reassessment lately regarding my workouts, especially the programming (which has been to blindly follow the GB pre-set exercises). While I find the course catalog of exercises useful as a library of exercises in the bodyweight approach, I'm finding there's a general limitation: some lack of paired-antagonist work. While there is some mobility work that is antagonistic in nature, they're not to nearly the same rigor towards strengthening as the actual exercises themselves. 

Ex. hollow body holds. Spent the last 1.5 yrs doing this frontline core workout without any arching antagonistic exercises. I did read Overcoming Gravity a couple years ago when deciding how to start a more reasoned approach to workouts (from the crossfit grave I was digging myself into); one thing stressed over and over were paired-antagonist exercises. Not that this is anything new in the exercise world, but what a massively overlooked issue on my part. 

Which means an excellent opportunity for realignment and with it a sober, honest look at what I want as global guiding principles. These basically break down into 2 domains: personal and family oriented. 

Personal:

1) Rock bouldering/climbing for as long as possible. To me this is tantamount to vertical dancing. The feeling of fluidly yet creatively coursing along a route is a synergistic joy between my mind and body (sometimes hitting a blissful flow state). To be even more raw for a moment: it will be way more satisfying to have a flow state climbing a V5 sloper run as if I'm floating and creatively maneuvering, than to ever hit a single V10 through intense struggle. Likewise, being able to show off a front lever might be cool as a party trick, but I much rather want the flow state opportunities much much more. If front lever progressions help me get there more often, I'm down. But I don't want to confuse one goal for the other and get injured in the process of trying to strengthen myself for climbing (aka if I'm gonna get injured let it come from the actual climbing!).

2) Relaxation/stretching. I want to write more later as part of this 'manifesto to myself.' But briefly: even more mindful stretching, kinder limbering, only going to just beyond comfort (and not banging into discomfort) at end ROM, daily relaxation scripts (not every other week/month), enjoying the process more than any end-position.

Family:

1) Mobility to play with my kids over time. I abhor the idea of being a crippled adult that can't swing on the playground equipment or roll in the grass with my kids as they grow. I cherish the idea of continuing to play with my kids instead of watching them play.

2) A dedication to health in the parents begets a dedication to health in the children. This is from modeling and trust. Definite tie-ins to all the above principles: the unspoken yet demonstrated enjoyment of my physical activities, passions, relaxation capacities, ROM capacities and therefore all the consequent capacities in playing/moving/being healthy for my family. My daughter sat in cross-legs at her first karate class the other day, only 4y/o, and the instructor was blown away that she could just sit with her eyes closed breathing deeply for over 2 minutes (apparently most kids can't go beyond 30 seconds). She said afterwards "I was relaxing just like daddy." That floored me; the tears were welling for sure. 

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

It hasn't been perfectly consistent, but finally starting to add regular lying relaxation guided sessions when I'm traveling for work. I work in week-long chunks for very long days, so the relaxing is more immediately useful than trying to do protracted stretching sessions or even workouts. I'm finally experiencing the need to do relaxation scripts most, limbering second most, bouldering/play third and stretching/strength training fourth (but I still wonder if I had to choose, which happens more than I like, to skip a workout OR skip a deep stretch... I believe I'd be better served choosing the latter and usually do). 

On the strength front, the arch body holds are such a fantastic feeling exercise after doing hollow body holds. I've also noticed increased awareness through doing ABHs that my glutes were being massively under-activated in several other movements (including 'basic' maneuvers like cat-cow). Reminds me of how Olivia cued me to squeeze my glutes when in the box bridge position in Vancouver... suddenly my body moved several inches further into the correct alignment. 

 

 

 

 

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

Noticing that I need to do glute-activating 'inverse' exercises even after rock climbing: having lumbar soreness, though this is relieved with eccentric' reverse hypers off a table. Now that I'm focusing on technical correctness in climbing, it demands lots of hollow-body hold like positioning to get the center of gravity close to the wall. The benefit has been a relieving of tendonitis at my medial epicondyles, now that positioning and footwork are improving. 

It's interesting to note how many different ways one can miss gluteal activation... man have I been flailing over the years with this! And it's really difficult to be mindful of it all day, cause my reflexive default was to under utilize my glutes in favor of (?) erector spinae. Anyways, this is a revelation for me. Now I find myself trying to activate glutes in many different, run of the mill daily positions. 

[Ed Heddle]

On 12/13/2018 at 3:21 AM, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

It's interesting to note how many different ways one can miss gluteal activation... man have I been flailing over the years with this! And it's really difficult to be mindful of it all day, cause my reflexive default was to under utilize my glutes in favor of (?) erector spinae. Anyways, this is a revelation for me. Now I find myself trying to activate glutes in many different, run of the mill daily positions. 

Haha, likewise! On the weekend I was climbing an warm-up route, and I was shocked that (1) I could apply a tail-tuck movement with pretty much every climbing move (and that it made the position feel stronger and more secure) and, (2) that I wasn't already doing this habitually. It's becoming increasingly clear to me that a lot of high-end climbing strength is hiding in plain sight—I've pretty much had to figure out from scratch that "good footwork" is primarily "good hipwork".

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

On January 9, 2019 at 1:23 AM, Ed Heddle said:

I've pretty much had to figure out from scratch that "good footwork" is primarily "good hipwork".

I've had the same exact experience. Totally agree with you @Ed Heddle; good 'footwork' is really mostly 'good hip work' for sure. All the climbing books, blogs, videos and manuals all say the same basic, generic axiom "good footwork trumps strong arms 9 times out of 10." Yet none of them are saying what they actually mean: the orientation of the foot/leg optimizes the positioning of center of gravity (aka the hips!) only when core tension is applied (well, maybe a few are saying this but there's a lot of stuff out there to sift through).

Problem is, no climbing tutorial/colleague at the gym cites how to cue 'core tension.' It really is the hollow dish/body hold line with posterior pelvic tilt that creates the tension, keeping the hips close to the wall, making the arms work much much less. I find this true even in side positions such as flagging. The arch body hold is useful on overhangs for some moves I've found too.

I've been playing much more with anchoring my pelvic tilt with very aggressive toe-ing in at the in cut on foot chips (pressing hard) and it's making a huge difference (to the point that some routes I'm going from pulling hard to make a hand move to not even needing to do anything but reach casually). Hell, even heel hooking is so much more effective with posterior pelvic tilt activation ("squeeze the butt" is my cue).  

Happy to hear more about this from your experiences too! The ST method of relearning my body cueing and proprioception has made my climbing experiences much richer... way richer much later in life than I ever expected past the teen and young adult phases (when I thought I was in my 'prime').

[Ed Heddle]

Three points:

1. I've found that the apprehension reflex when doing a dyno (be it a one-handed dyno, or a flashy all-points-off two-handed latch) is vastly diminished when I think of the tail tuck first. My brain doesn't simply doesn't want to hold on to the target hold with the hands if the core/pelvis/legs are not "well organised"; conversely, if the glutes and TA are on, the body knows that there is "give" in the system—if needs be, the pelvis can move from PPT to ATP, and this can act as a shock absorber if the force in the catch is too much for the forearm flexors/the lats/the abdominals.
2. I'm thinking the subjective experience of "trusting footholds" is exactly when the posterior chain (glutes esp.) is active—I've found that when smearing on footers that I don't trust, if I sink my attention into my pelvis, I find that the glutes aren't active. In other words, the apprehension around the trustworthiness of the footer means that the glutes aren't active. On such footholds, I find that activating the glutes changes the felt sensation entirely—my brain thinks "Well shit, perhaps I can trust this smear after all".
3. Depending on the context, my glute cues are "squeeze the butt", "tuck the tail", or, my favourite, "use the butt to pull the big leg bone down".

I have a dear friend who spent some time in Korea bouldering with Nalle Hukkataival. He remarked that he was struck by how Nalle seemed to be able to get boatloads of weight through his feet, in pretty much any circumstance. I'm guessing that it's in a large part how he uses the glutes, functioning as part of a strong posterior chain.

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

1 hour ago, Ed Heddle said:

the apprehension around the trustworthiness of the footer means that the glutes aren't active. On such footholds, I find that activating the glutes changes the felt sensation entirely

Love your post! All excellent points; I hadn't thought about your points related to dynos. Going to have to take my time tomorrow and have fun learning my activation pattern on those. Only very recently has it been apparent to me that the kinetic chain between feet and glutes should be set before even considering moving my arms. And like you said, this isn't even a static vs dynamic climbing issue, it's a glutes activation issue!

1 hour ago, Ed Heddle said:

I'm guessing that it's in a large part how he uses the glutes, functioning as part of a strong posterior chain.

Not sure if you have this experience watching other's climbing on video, like pros, but it's easy to only look at their hand placement. Then I would tell myself "I'll try to watch their foot placement more." Then eventually it was "where do I think their center of gravity was being positioned/transitioned to." Problem is, like you said in your other post, we can't see them activating their glutes/posterior chain with our naked eyes. Like Kit says with learning the pancake: hip activation has to be experienced. 

One fun and great supplementary habit I've developed has been to use novel ways to get off the ground from sitting, from a chair and in/out of cars using only my legs/core (no arms or hands!). I know Craig Mallett has a course one can buy on this very topic. I haven't been at it long but it's already becoming an instinctual game. For example, I'll say to myself "hmmm, which way can I get off the floor with my legs like this and not use my arms." Figure four, pistol squat, 'reverse' cossack squat... it gets really fun and it is definitely teaching my brain to think about using my hips and legs together to get up from novel configurations. Very translatable to bouldering and (bonus) my daughter gets a kick out of trying daddy's goofy movements.

[Ed Heddle]

On 1/11/2019 at 4:00 PM, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

Problem is, we can't see them activating their glutes/posterior chain with our naked eyes.

I think perhaps one can see it, but it manifests at the level of "climbing with ease and grace". Example:

at 3:11, you can see how Dave dynamically tucks his tail (among other instances), and throughout the video "Lynn Hill at Hueco Tanks - Patagonia Ambassador goes Bouldering in Texas", you can see that Lynn is really pulling from the glutes. Now that I'm seeing it, I'm wondering how I missed it all these years!!!! ?

On 1/11/2019 at 4:00 PM, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

One fun and great supplementary habit I've developed has been to use novel ways to get off the ground from sitting, from a chair and in/out of cars using only my legs/core (no arms or hands!).

Awesome!  I'll have to start playing with this.

[mytype1collagenis2tight]

On 11/1/2018 at 9:25 PM, mytype1collagenis2tight said:

Relaxation/stretching. I want to write more later as part of this 'manifesto to myself.' But briefly: even more mindful stretching, kinder limbering, only going to just beyond comfort (and not banging into discomfort) at end ROM, daily relaxation scripts (not every other week/month), enjoying the process more than any end-position.

Quoting myself as this thread is a (mostly) journalistic endeavor. 

Oddly, I've realized that since starting ballistic (really more pulsing end of spectrum) stretching on the lower body, I'm much more mindful and careful compared to my daily limbering. I would think that doing set/reps ballistics would lend itself more to banging into my end ROM with reckless abandon. However, strangely, this approach I'm much more careful to be very attentive and appropriately intense with the somatic feedback. I figure this likely has to do with my habit of 'feeling like I need a workout' sometimes, even when just limbering. Something to work on for sure.

Doing the ballistic stretching as a warmup for the day ahead has proved very useful and powerful. Already one week in I'm deeper in my standing straddle pancake then ever before. My pu bu is already paying massive dividends on my straddle in general as well. The recruitment of motor units in this early phase always feels good... I know the plateau is ahead, so going to make this a until my birthday stretching challenge (encouraged by old ST posts of the same ilk) and see where it takes me. For now, paired exercises (only a slight Craig Mallett deviation):

forward bend pulses + twisted forward bend pulses

elevated leg + hip pulses

pu bu + single leg toe pulses

standing straddle pancake pulses + tailor pose pulses (this latter I've had to get a bit creative with the tactile cueing - stacks of thin books below the knees!)

Also continuing C-R stretching for relaxation at end ROM as well: doing 1x/week partner stretching (recruiting my wife on the partner HF stretches and pec minor stick stretches) and continuing near-daily lying pec stretch, solo HFs, squashed frog (or reverse frogs), spinal movements, hanging for lats/pecs.