Shoulder hypermobility

[Edoardo]

Since I was a kid I could dislocate my shoulder very easily without any pain, they dislocate even just if I get in a certain position when sleeping. Now I'm 17, when I do circles with them they make cracks, just doing the shoulder dislocates exercise makes them crack to and dislocate(not the nice stretch). How to fix this? 

[Edoardo]

Here is a picture of my pike.

I want to note another problem I have, it is abductor tightness, it tends to be very tight and when trying to do a middle split it is the only muscle that wont make me go further.

[dannyg]

Hey there, Welcome!

Firstly, have you read the material and done your research? Have you checked out the Mastery series? What do you want?

 

I guarantee that it's more than just your Adductors (Inner thigh) holding you back (Your Abductors are the ones that are on the outside of your hips). I can see from your pike that other muscles are likely responsible also.

 

Are you sure you're experiencing a true dislocation? When you describe your shoulders, are you trying to move quickly and sharply with too narrow a grip? Moving slowly and with control is the key. A good friend of mine legitimately has a shoulder dislocation issue and things like throwing a cricket ball or leaning on his arms at the wrong angle can lead to a dislocation and high levels of pain. (And many a trip to hospital, to reduce the joint when he can't)

If you are experience real physiological dislocations , you likely have rotator cuff and labral problems, that often require surgery or intensive rehabilitation. Seek professional advice if you are seriously, regularly dislocating your shoulders. The GH joint is very shallow and relies on the lamrum, ligaments and soft tissues to offer support (and scapula control).

If you are just experiencing discomfort, move smoothly and slowly at a wider grip (and no ego) and see how it feels.

[Edoardo]

Thank you for the reply Danny, when I do the side splits I mostly feel the abductors(the ones at the sides of the hips). I have bought all the mastery series and read posts about stretching by Kit. My shoulder dislocates by will, like in this video 

It has never been a problem and never was uncomfortable but recently my shoulders the upper part that is connected to the neck hurts often, and when I roll my shoulders they do very cracky sounds and hurt a little bit.

 

[dannyg]

Ah, my apologies for assuming your anatomy knowledge was off. I'm too used to the general public's level of knowledge.

Looking at your pike, your lumbar spine is still quite flexed. I wish I had taken a photo of a lady in the clinic today who was able to get her hands flat on the ground with a straight lumbar spine (She is an injured Taekwondo enthusiast). It's entirely possible to have incongruent movement of the hip joint if the pelvis in relatively posteriorly rotated, working with a straight lumbar spine (and anterior pelvic tilt) and active external rotation of the hip can help with this.

If the discomfort in felt more anteriorly, it could be the hip flexors cramping (which is common).

Regarding your shoulders, what physical strength work are you doing? The sensations in your shoulders could be from scapulo-thoracic joints, soft tissues, first rib... the list goes on. If you unable to smoothly control the movement in your shoulders, I'd suggest the issue is one of motor/alignment control. 

Looking at the video you posted you could be hypermobile (And I mean this regarding collagen/elastin ratios in the connective tissue, easily 'tested' with a skin pinch). If that is the case, and you have very lax connective tissue and ligaments the decision to stop stretching them strongly and move towards strengthening and controlling them would be a wise one. Connective tissue responds much more slowly that muscle (or even bone), so being patient with connective tissue strength is important.

Many dancers use shoulder movements such as the ones you display as part of 'Flexing' or 'Bone-Breaking' style dance - you could become a dancer.

Have you been assessed using the Beighton Score or Brighton Criteria? Have you been checked out for connective tissue disorders such as Ehlers Danlos?

 

General rule is: If it hurts or feels bad - stop doing it. 

An addendum to that is: If you have sufficient awareness and control to differentiate between 'discomfort' and 'potential injury' it's okay.

 

Pancake is my white whale though. I'm miles away.

 

Hope that helps, hopefully someone else will chime in.

[Edoardo]

Hey thank you for the fast reply.

 

I started focusing on my anterior pelvic tilt and have felt it much more in the hamstrings all over the legs..

My hip flexors are tight.. Ever since doing the stretch in the squat program they have been feeling much better. From a lot of time my lumbar spine has been in a little bit of pain after I did seated forward bends, especially the pancake, as my abductors severely limit how wide my legs can be. Now the pain is little but still there, maybe the hip flexors?

 

I am doing strenght work 2 times a week, along with qiqong everyday and hatha yoga, my strenght work is very similar to the recomended routine on reddit, as I made it with the book overcoming gravity 2. For my shoulders I do handstand work on the wall. Then doing pullups dips rows and pushups. I have injured my knee by going too fast on pistol squats but now it's getting better.

I have never been assessed by any physiotherapist, and those little times I did it was useless.

I forgot to mention that I suffer from sciatica pain, in both sides, altough my left side is definitely more annoying than the right side, stretching triggered it much more.

[dannyg]

Sciatica pain? What makes in worse? Are you experiencing any neurological symptoms such as weakness or sensory change into your legs? Or just the linear pain down the back of your leg?

Have you done any piriformis stretching? 

Anatomically the abductors shouldn't be 'restricting' you. But your pelvic position might be: Have you searched the forums? Check out this thread which might be of interest: https://kitlaughlin.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1039-upright-torso-in-side-split/ 

Don't let your ego force you to flex your lumbar spine too much - Keep your chest up and keep your awareness in your body, not on the end goal. It sounds like you're flexing your lumbar spine too much, and not keeping it neutral. Use a mirror (or friend) to keep an eye on your lumbar flexion. Also sounds like you need to work on pelvic control a bit more to allow. More hamstring work might be needed.

Are you doing any straight arm scapular strength work? Are you focusing on form, and not 'reps'?

Edited September 25, 2017 by Kit_L
unwanted paragraph returns!

[Kit_L]

16 hours ago, dannyg said:

the decision to stop stretching them strongly and move towards strengthening and controlling them would be a wise one.

What he said. The right kind of strength training develops the strength you need and in time will tighten ligaments, too.

Your knees do not appear to have excessive hypermobility—but to be sure, do your hamstring stretching using our exercises, and concentrate on developing that contraction strength in the end ROM, holding knees in perfect alignment (why we work on the floor in single-leg poses and not on a ballet barre) and same with elbows (flex slightly, then tense all surrounding muscles.

DannyG is on the money in suggesting piriformis, too, I am sure (both in the hip pain and that sciatica you refer to); I will bet it's your external rotators that are hurting after Side Splits, and not the adductors. The best piriformis exercises work all four ext. Rotators.

[Edoardo]

I feel the sciatica mostly on the back of my glutes, I have been feeling it very often these days. My legs get the pins and needles sensation for the minimal things, for example just crossing my legs when I am sat on a chair, or just sitting cross legged on the floor, I can't hold those positions for more than 1 minute. letting the spine remain neutral didn't help. I am gonna look into scapular work.

 

I will work much more on the piriformis, strangely I havent felt much from that stretch in the squat mastery program but gonna implement the stretches from other programs.

Thank you a lot.

[Kit_L]

Please shoot an image of what you look like in the advanced piriformis pose (use a bolster under the front leg's hip, knee, and top part of the calf muscle, to relieve torque on the knee):

That sciatica sound like piriformis syndrome to me.

 

[Edoardo]

Here it is. 

Another problem I have is that after seated forward bending my lower spine tends to hurt and feel compressed, if I put my hands in punch position and put them under my glutes and raise myself my lower back will crack and actually feel better.

the same with plough pose but that is rather more painful after it. I have no idea what could be causing that, do you?

[dannyg]

I'll let Kit feedback about your piriformis. 

The most crucial thing about stretches is not the position, but how it feels. One of Kit's questions he asks everybody in workshops is 'How does that feel?'. It is a crucial question  - How does that stretch 'feel'?

For many people, lots of spinal flexion can be uncomfortable. Depending on your general sitting posture, or muscular tension etc it might be worth (again) avoiding those positions that cause discomfort until you are ready for them. Free your hips, the spine will follow. 

[Edoardo]

That makes sense. I will stop doing those positions, thank you.

[Pat (pogo69)]

12 hours ago, dannyg said:

Free your hips, the spine will follow. 

Love this.  Resonates all too strongly.

[Kit_L]

5 hours ago, pogo69 said:

Free your hips, the spine will follow

Quoting the great @dannyg. The ST bumper sticker and/or T-shirt. $19.99.

Edoardo, your external rotators are very tight, relative to the rest of your body. I recommend doing a limbering version of this exercise whenever you want (small pulses and various movements; Liv has a follow along program if you need guidance), and the full with-contractions version once every four days or so. Make sure you do the latter version two–three times in the one session. Your form is excellent, but after contractions, avoid the temptation to go deeper; instead go sideways (towards the foot) first. This movement might be enough in the beginning. 

And (free bonus) your hip flexors are (imagine me saying this quietly in your ear) T-I-G-H-T, looking at that second image. Loosening these will take an unimaginable amount of pressure off your lower back.

And the pressure you feel in the lower back after seated forward bends is completely to be expected until the adductors and hamstrings are loose enough to let the pelvis rotate anteriorly. Your first pike images show that it (the pelvis) is not moving. Let bent-leg forward bends be your friend. There are many posts on this—have you spent much time reading here?

[Edoardo]

You're the best Kit, I highly highly doubt anyone else could have helped me out with my body, my childhood has been way too sedentary since I was addicted to videogames(and guess how many hours a day I was sitting with a bad posture?:p). 

I will do everything you told me, and gonna be reading more on these forums,(it's a goldmine, I am wondering why there arent that many people writing in it).

I am definitely gonna be reporting back in 2-3 months.

thank you a lot again Kit, I hope one day I will be able to come to one of your workshops. (Come to Italy!!!) lol.

[dannyg]

@Edoardo Come to London next year

[Edoardo]

If the year goes as expected maybe!

Edited September 26, 2017 by Edoardo
As

[Edoardo]

This whole situation got me thinking how much I didn't know about my body, since I could easily pike down and touch the floor I thought that my hamstrings were super flexible and now just rotating the pelvis while doing a bent leg pike is like I never stretched my hamstrings. I am happy about this though