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Hello!!!

I am a regular user of reddit's /r/bodyweightfitness and /r/overcominggravity, and I have read something recently that peaked my interest. So, Steven Low, author of OG, answered a question about stretching and mobility and he mentioned "specific strengthening"and that it is very important for keeping new ROM. When I asked him to elaborate he said that after you stretch you need to do some specific mobility/strengthening in order for the nervous system to feel that the new ROM is safe and thus prevent it from retightening.

Now, a little bit about my situation. I have bought Master the Shoulder back in November and took me about 2 weeks to learn the stretches and make a routine to follow. So I did and then I followed it until a week ago. Basically what I did was  the intense ground lat stretch and the ground pec stretch as well as a bunch of other "minor stretches"(not from the program) and mobility BEFORE stretching as suggested. I did them consistently, 3-4 times a week whenever I was not sore, did everyday some limbering movements like the rubber cord sequence and Yuri's sequence, relaxed, deep breathing, enough time into the stretch, t-spine mobilization, soft tissue work etc. I know I stretched "right" because directly afterwards I really had gained ROM but the problem is it kept retightening back an hour later or the next day. I shot videos every few days doing the Emmet Louis' assessment for overhead flexibility and for a month or so I saw maybe 1-2cm progress, I can't really tell.

A week ago I kind of reversed the order of some stuff that I did. I am always warmed up after doing my strength routine so I can go directly into my stretch routine. So this time I stretched (pecs/lats and the rest) and afterwards I did some wall slides, hanging scapular circles, rubber cord sequence and Yuri's sequence. So, stretching and THEN specific strengthening,

I have been doing this for a week now and I have to say, this was the missing key for me. I can now stretch and "lock" the new range of motion! And I am seeing measurable progress!

I'd like the opinions of other users and I have a question for Kit as well. I will speak only for the Master the Shoulder as this is the one I am going through now. The order of the exercises in the program is the opposite of what I described above and I understand this because they serve as a kind of exploration and warmup. But doing them like this did not work for me, I know that everyone is different and different things work for different people but this is an important aspect of stretching I believe. What's your view on this? 

Disclaimer: I am not saying the stretches are bad! Quite the contrary, the Mastery programs are the best resources I have about stretching! I am just making a case for the exercise order in MTS and why something different worked for me.

Demetris

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Your post is a bit TLDR, but for a couple of years now I have become a big believer in:

- Opening up today's best RoM with limbering even mild stretching

- Doing weighted work.

- EDIT. And do deeper stretching after.

For example, hips, shoulders, t-spine routine ahead of doing weighted overhead squats. I think the "received advice" about not stretching before strength is just wrong for training purposes.  Maybe it saps some performance ahead of a max effort if you already have perfect movement for the lift but Im not lifting for the dough.

For your question about ST shoulder series, you arent meant to do them in order, but find the ones that work for you. Some are better limbering exercises, some better for deep stretching. But this isnt prescription, but suggestions.

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Stretching right after relevant strengthening work is what I have always recommended (and this is more to do with deep warming up than anything else). But, and this is a big "BUT" I have always told anyone who would listen that you have to find what works for you. It seems that you have! 

Personally (and using leg/hip day as example), I would limber with Cossack and Skandasana to start > strength work > whatever stretches I am focussing on (presently, front and side splits). Personally, I get the deepest, longest-lasting stretch effect if I use this order.

The "don't stretch before strength work" came out of completely bogus work done by some researchers who found—amazingly—that if someone did maximum contraction PNF-type stretching that their maximum force production was reduced. The problem was (among many problems) no one in the stretching world had ever recommended doing this... We call this a "straw man" position, or fallacy.

SD is spot on when he said "For your question about ST shoulder series, you aren't meant to do them in order, but find the ones that work for you. Some are better limbering exercises, some better for deep stretching. But this isn't prescription, but suggestions".

The larger point here is that you have found what works for you, and you found it by experimenting. This kind of knowledge is gold. I know it's a lot of reading, but this and much more ha been covered in the "Start Here" threads. And by all means repost your post there or I can move it for you; direct experience trumps everything else.

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