Cam's Log

[Nathan]

1 hour ago, Cam Ogle said:

You mention the post stretch glute activation here and the question begs- is doing glute work (as everyone prescribes) the cure for inactive glutes or are we spinning our wheels due to other factors getting in the way like our hip flexors?

I'd guess the answer (for most people) is likely yes!  Meaning not either/or, but both deficiencies exist and need to be addressed. Then again, that's usually the case with these kinds of things 

[Kit_L]

17 hours ago, Cam Ogle said:

You mention the post stretch glute activation here and the question begs- is doing glute work (as everyone prescribes) the cure for inactive glutes or are we spinning our wheels due to other factors getting in the way like our hip flexors?

Depends on the glute ROM you are interested in: if in the stepping up ROM (so thighs at 90° to trunk range) then standard glute activation techniques will work perfectly well. BUT (thinking sprinting here) if you want to gain glute activation in the 0° to extension range, then unless you really get into the HFs you are wasting your time completely: the reciprocal inhibition reflex will shut the glutes down as you reach the end of the HF ROM.

[Cam Ogle]

12 hours ago, Kit_L said:

Depends on the glute ROM you are interested in: if in the stepping up ROM (so thighs at 90° to trunk range) then standard glute activation techniques will work perfectly well. BUT (thinking sprinting here) if you want to gain glute activation in the 0° to extension range, then unless you really get into the HFs you are wasting your time completely: the reciprocal inhibition reflex will shut the glutes down as you reach the end of the HF ROM.

Yes! This is what I'm talking about. Maybe I've been hiding under a rock but this is new information to me and I'm wondering why this information is not more prevalent. Guess that's what you're trying to do hey. 

[Kit_L]

It is my idea and it's accurate. I worked with a number of world-class sprinters years ago, and the HF stretches made the most difference to their power production capacities and a more upright stance (à la Michael Johnson):

You need serious extension in the HF to even get into this position (note no extension in lumbar spine). And he has massive glutes.

But a powerlifter or an Olympic lifter will never need to produce strength in this kind of ROM, so not necessary for them (except for the usual reasons of reducing parasitic tension in the spine). I can elaborate.

[Cam Ogle]

@Kit_L I would love to hear more on this. For me personally I'm more interested in this for running/sprinting and martial arts especially kicking (not sure if would even apply here- my lack of femoral control has gotten me into trouble in the past when kicking) but it's a fascinating concept anyway. 

[Cam Ogle]

19/02/17

Have really been pushed for time and some motivation to train the last couple of weeks. Work and family life are super busy which is great but getting it all to work together is the hard part. Also got a dog (rescue greyhound) too which is taking some focus away. Got back in for a quick, family interrupted session though. 

Quick warm up

A1) Sumo DL
60 x 3, 80 x 3, 100 x 3, 120 x 3

A2) Handstand entries with max free hold on each one
x 5, 5, 5, 5

Started some front lever work and was interrupted by a family visit so that was it. 

Thought I'd give sumo a go for shits and giggles. Have never tried before and felt ok but 120 was pretty hard. In relation I used a normal stance to lift and re-rack 120 after the last set and 120 was much easier this way. May throw this in from time to time just for a change up. 

[Nathan]

1 hour ago, Cam Ogle said:

Thought I'd give sumo a go for shits and giggles.

That may not be the best expression to use in reference to spreading your legs wide open, squatting down, and attempting to pick up large amounts of weight while bracing hard 

[Cam Ogle]

3 hours ago, Nathan said:

That may not be the best expression to use in reference to spreading your legs wide open, squatting down, and attempting to pick up large amounts of weight while bracing hard 

Haha yes probably not the best expression. 

[anteriorankle]

@Kit_L, I would also love hear more about HF stretching and power production in sprinting! A friend and I have theorised that loose HFs (and being flexible in general) can have massive benefits in parkour, outside of just sprinting. One of my favourite traceurs has quite loose HFs (I believe) and this seems to allow him to take quite large strides. As well as that, being able to pike (a pike in parkour is just having your legs extended in front of you) with an upright chest is a massive advantage when it comes to sticking landings. I would have great difficulty achieving this position:

I don't want to hijack the thread but I love talking about flexibility in performance and specific movements and would love to hear your input.

 

[Cam Ogle]

20/02/2017- 9pm
bw- 91.something

BA Day 1-
Shoulder and scap prep- some ext rotations thrown in

Incline Bench-
bar x 10, 40 x 8, 60 x 5, 70 x 1
77.5 x 2, 2, 2

DB Row-
5 x 10, 15 x 8, 25 x 8, 35 x 5
40 x 5, 5, 5

Falling into the same old trap of doing less work. I was in and out in around 40 mins. Probably had the time to do some dips and chins but not the energy, especially after a full day of eating. Either way, bench felt good and this is pretty much PR territory for me so I'll take it. Did HF stretches between sets of bench too. 

21/02/17

Nothing like some morning Shi Da Pan to wake the body up. My morning routine is getting better. Out of bed earlier and straight into some kind of activity. 

Went through Shi Da Pan 1-6 with 20 reps each way on 1 and then 10 for 2-5. Followed that with some bridge entries just to gauge my current level. Not too bad actually. All up about 15 mins. Hams and hips super tight though. 

One of the reasons I love this type of stretching is that when I did it regularly I had great results and was generally loose all day with minimal tightness. As with all things I got excited by the shiny new idea and moved on. Funny though that back then I thought it was "dynamic" stretching when in reality it was very much ballistic but still rather controlled. 

SAS to come tonight. 

[Cam Ogle]

Last nights planned SAS turned into a 90 minute family walk with our dog through the local botanic gardens. Didn't have quite the same physical effect but was much more relaxing. 

22/02/17

Morning routine is building. Shi da pan again this morning. Made it through the first 7 and stopped on number 8 as I was struggling to get the form correct. After this I did Ido's locomotion beginner routine, some HF stretches and then a few minutes resting in the squat. All up about 25 minutes. I do want to add some foundation martial arts style punches and kicks (reverse punch, front, side, roundhouse, wheel kick, etc) as well and get it up to around 50-60 minutes total. 

[Cam Ogle]

22/02/17- 
Training time- 9pm
bw- 90.2
Injuries- none
Soreness- high in left ham (underbutt area)

Warm up- 
banded ankle dorsiflexion, banded hip flexor, monster walks

A)Hang Clean- 
bar x 5, 40 x 5
Power Clean- 
60 x 5, 80 x 1

B1)Squat-
60 x 5, 80 x 5, 100 x 3, 120 x 1, 
belted- 130 x 3

B2) Tuck Front Lever- x 5s x 5

B3) Planche Lean- x 10s x 5

Pigeon stretch, HF stretch

Interesting workout. Was a late one so didn't plan to go for too long but got some good value and feedback. PC of 80kg was kind of easy which is nice. My technique is still off here though and I'll have to do some research. Had planned on doing squats at 125 for 4 but they felt so good early on. Really god my technique locked in. Feet screwed in and some nice speed. Could have potentially pushed for a 4th rep but didn't see the point in overextending. 

Video'd lever and planche work. On the levers I'm getting some decent extension and I definitely felt this in the lats. Not able to hold for long but it's promising at least. Noted that on planche leans I'm letting my scaps wing which is a problem I've had for a while. I still notice that my left side is weaker than my right, even to the point of having a difference in lat size. I have noticed that my left pec is slightly larger than my right though which I'm assuming is also related. 

Any suggestions on good exercises/movements for scap control? 

On another note I have not had alcohol, refined sugar (biscuits, chocolate, ice cream, etc) or junk food (fast food, chips, etc) for over 2 weeks now. This has always been my issue and I have had unhealthy relationships with food in the past. I'm definitely noticing the difference in how I feel and how I'm looking. It's also funny how easy it has become to not have these foods. Like super easy. Even getting off the alcohol has been easy. It doesn't even register on the needs scale now. 
 

[Nathan]

2 hours ago, Cam Ogle said:

Noted that on planche leans I'm letting my scaps wing which is a problem I've had for a while.

So reduce the lean until you can maintain protraction  It's such a simple solution, but one that none of us wants to implement  You could do isolation work like scap push ups, but in most cases it's really just a matter of building the proper strength by choosing the proper regression. It's kind of like continuing to do really heavy EZ-bar bicep curls with terrible form and just adding light dumbbell bicep curls done properly as assistance work to try to address "the problem."

Same thing with imbalances for the most part. They're usually not nearly as big as we think, and they're rarely actually a problem. Even so, if you choose the proper regression/progression that allows you to maintain good form (which will mean that your weak side limits you), then they will eventually balance out!

[Cam Ogle]

1 hour ago, Nathan said:

So reduce the lean until you can maintain protraction  It's such a simple solution, but one that none of us wants to implement  You could do isolation work like scap push ups, but in most cases it's really just a matter of building the proper strength by choosing the proper regression. It's kind of like continuing to do really heavy EZ-bar bicep curls with terrible form and just adding light dumbbell bicep curls done properly as assistance work to try to address "the problem."

Same thing with imbalances for the most part. They're usually not nearly as big as we think, and they're rarely actually a problem. Even so, if you choose the proper regression/progression that allows you to maintain good form (which will mean that your weak side limits you), then they will eventually balance out!

Good answer (didn't even consider this haha). I was also thinking of something I can progress in different ways for scap positioning and health. I keep hearing that the scap are the first thing to give out in a lot of movements and I don't know that by just training these movements I can build the strength required to train the movements (if that sentence makes sense at all). I may just need to focus on all my positioning to make sure the scap are in the correct position for each (cue slow and painful training for the next month ) 

[Nathan]

4 hours ago, Cam Ogle said:

I keep hearing that the scap are the first thing to give out in a lot of movements

Yeah, it's possible for that to be the bottleneck in some movements, but we're talking about planche leans, which are a straight-arm exercise and thus essentially a scap exercise. Of course lots of other muscles are working hard, but you're not really training the movement to hit those muscles. But like I said, it wouldn't hurt to add in some scap push ups or other isolation work. Just isn't really helping anything if you're leaning to a point where you can't keep protraction.

[Cam Ogle]

1 hour ago, Nathan said:

Yeah, it's possible for that to be the bottleneck in some movements, but we're talking about planche leans, which are a straight-arm exercise and thus essentially a scap exercise. Of course lots of other muscles are working hard, but you're not really training the movement to hit those muscles. But like I said, it wouldn't hurt to add in some scap push ups or other isolation work. Just isn't really helping anything if you're leaning to a point where you can't keep protraction.

I think you're spot on. I may have neglected to mention I probably have scap issues with a lot more exercises to in addition to the rehab/iso stuff I think I need to regress a bit on some other exercises and pay a lot more attention to my movements. This will most likely be a good thing for the long term. 

[Nathan]

31 minutes ago, Cam Ogle said:

This will most likely be a good thing for the long term. 

For sure! Always helps to pay more attention. I spent a while doing mostly scap work (vertical and horizontal pushing and pulling) in my Wed. sessions as a sort of light day and I'm pretty sure it helped just about all of my movements. Even so, I'm constantly fighting myself to stay where I belong progression-wise  I'd say I'm successful about half of the time 

[MattPark]

Scapular strengthening work is definitely helpful and keep things working well. I do a band activation before every session to get everything going, pull aparts horizontally and vertically focusing on the retraction and depression separately, band chest flies with protraction then move onto scapular pull ups and some shrugs on the parallel bars before holding a support hold, then I let my training do the hardcore strengthening. In addition I do scapular circles and dislocates daily.

Regression is always good like @Nathan suggested, if you can go to an easy enough level where your position is stable the strengthening will happen just progressing from there. Before I even started planche leans I had to do 1-arm scap push ups with a controlled tempo slow up and down with a 2 second hold at full protraction for 5-10 reps a side over 5 sets. I did those 2x week as my planche training essentially for 6 weeks before I started on leans so it gives a really strong base of strength. They are quite hard I must say haha.

[Cam Ogle]

12 hours ago, Nathan said:

For sure! Always helps to pay more attention. I spent a while doing mostly scap work (vertical and horizontal pushing and pulling) in my Wed. sessions as a sort of light day and I'm pretty sure it helped just about all of my movements. Even so, I'm constantly fighting myself to stay where I belong progression-wise  I'd say I'm successful about half of the time 

Truth. My battle is the training consistency to make the progression/regression worth it. Much easier on big BB movements compared to the bodyweight/structure stuff. 

[Cam Ogle]

12 hours ago, MattPark said:

Scapular strengthening work is definitely helpful and keep things working well. I do a band activation before every session to get everything going, pull aparts horizontally and vertically focusing on the retraction and depression separately, band chest flies with protraction then move onto scapular pull ups and some shrugs on the parallel bars before holding a support hold, then I let my training do the hardcore strengthening. In addition I do scapular circles and dislocates daily.

Regression is always good like @Nathan suggested, if you can go to an easy enough level where your position is stable the strengthening will happen just progressing from there. Before I even started planche leans I had to do 1-arm scap push ups with a controlled tempo slow up and down with a 2 second hold at full protraction for 5-10 reps a side over 5 sets. I did those 2x week as my planche training essentially for 6 weeks before I started on leans so it gives a really strong base of strength. They are quite hard I must say haha.

Thanks for the post and the suggestions Matt. I think it'll be good for me to regress on a few movements, get them sorted and gradually build. It's so unexciting (is that even a word) but I'm sure the gains will be much more exciting. 

[Nathan]

13 hours ago, MattPark said:

Scapular strengthening work is definitely helpful and keep things working well. I do a band activation before every session to get everything going, pull aparts horizontally and vertically focusing on the retraction and depression separately, band chest flies with protraction then move onto scapular pull ups and some shrugs on the parallel bars before holding a support hold, then I let my training do the hardcore strengthening. In addition I do scapular circles and dislocates daily.

Thanks for the reality check, @MattPark! I've been training like this so long that all of that stuff is just my "warm up" and I don't even really think about it as scap work anymore 

1 hour ago, Cam Ogle said:

It's so unexciting (is that even a word) but I'm sure the gains will be much more exciting. 

Exactly!

[Cam Ogle]

@Nathan and @MattPark - it's funny. I do banded scap work before pretty much any session. I think my number 1 problem is awareness. It wasn't till I got visual feedback that I really noticed the issue. 

[Cam Ogle]

Nothing more motivating and demoralising at the same time to watch kids doing gymnastics and sitting so easily in positions us adults would kill for. 

[anteriorankle]

22 minutes ago, Cam Ogle said:

Nothing more motivating and demoralising at the same time to watch kids doing gymnastics and sitting so easily in positions us adults would kill for. 

Yes! At work the other day there was this girl on the trampolines jumping in the air and doing the side splits way beyond parallel. I always get excited when I see really flexible people at work and pester them to do all these kind of movements. Turns out she could do this with ease (as well as many other ridiculous movements):

So impressive, and even more so that it's not a big deal to them - from their perspective they can move into these positions and so they do.

[Cam Ogle]

7 minutes ago, anteriorankle said:

Yes! At work the other day there was this girl on the trampolines jumping in the air and doing the side splits way beyond parallel. I always get excited when I see really flexible people at work and pester them to do all these kind of movements. Turns out she could do this with ease (as well as many other ridiculous movements):

So impressive, and even more so that it's not a big deal to them - from their perspective they can move into these positions and so they do.

Yes. Exactly. There were three girls sitting full pancake with absolute ease prior to even warming up.