Softening the abdomen

[jaja]

During the last couple of months I realized I have tight abdominal muscles, so tight I usually can't breath deeply. I've noticed it because after a lying relaxation session I feel my abdomen more relaxed than usual and I'm therefore able to breath more freely, a thing that brings various benefits such as more energy during the day and a more profound voice.

 

Playing a bit with my breath and directing into various parts of my abdomen I can feel tension that needs to be released, especially in the area between the chest and the belly button. Using the sheer force of my breath to stretch the muscles isn't really effective, so I wonder if there're any recommended exercises (stretching positions, breathing techniques, etc); for example I know the abdomen is really important for Daoists, so maybe Craig could give some insights on this.

 

Any thoughts?

[Craig]

Definitely stretching the hip flexors and quads can release a lot of tension, and backbends help also!

As far as fixing your breathing, the best way is to actually practice breathing. Put aside 15-30 minutes a day to work on just breathing. The practice is simple, breathe in, feel the incoming breath, breathe out, feel the outgoing breath. Rinse and repeat for the whole 30 minutes. If you find the internal commentator is interfering or distracting too much you can try to occupy it by saying "inhale" and "exhale" to yourself along with the action.

There are many variations to this practice, if you want to read about it in more detail I highly recommend getting Serge's book, but really all you need to do is the practice above every day, with enough patience to continue it for a year straight (actually that's a lie, better to continue it forever).

[jaja]

Thanks for the answer, Craig.

 

I already meditate daily and I usually watch the breath as it passes at my nostrils, but you're suggesting to feel the breath expand my lungs, have I understood correctly? Should the breath be effortless, or should I try to establish a pattern?

[zenwoof]

I am a student of Serge's (and read his book) but it wasn't clear what proper breathing actually is, maybe I overlooked something. The impression I got was I'm supposed to breathe into the belly, so in my practice my intention was focused on the belly expanding as much as possible and then collapsing.

 

Came across some stuff that echoed some concerns I experienced:

 

I know people love to talk about “belly breathing,” but try this: Take in a big belly breath and feel what happens to your lower back and pelvis. What kind of position does that drive?
(http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/random-thoughts-on-core-training/)

 

For me, at a certain point my lower back will arch and pelvis go into (more) anterior tilt.

So instead of there being just one component to diaphragmatic breathing (i.e. the belly fills), there are really three components to an effective breathing pattern:
 1.    The abdomen/core fills,
 2.    The lower ribs expand, and
 3.    The upper ribs (apical section) fills.
(http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/the-breath-stress-relationship/)

 

Now this is the pattern I focus on - belly fills --> observe lower ribs --> chest --> belly drops --> ribs drop. Whereas before, I was solely "inflate belly" the whole inhalation.
 

[jaja]

 

So instead of there being just one component to diaphragmatic breathing (i.e. the belly fills), there are really three components to an effective breathing pattern:

 1.    The abdomen/core fills,

 2.    The lower ribs expand, and

 3.    The upper ribs (apical section) fills.

(http://robertsontrai...s-relationship/) 

 

Now this is the pattern I focus on - belly fills --> observe lower ribs --> chest --> belly drops --> ribs drop. Whereas before, I was solely "inflate belly" the whole inhalation.

 

I've been introduced before to these concepts by my yoga instructors and and I've tried before to follow this pattern (in fact I'm trying right now), but it feels so…unnatural, almost tiring…maybe because I'm actively using my muscles to direct the flow into the upper part of the ribs, I don't know. I'm completely new to this, but you seem to have some knowledge, so I'll ask away something.

 

I'm not currently doing strength training because after my issues with fasciculations and really high level of stress and muscular tension I felt the need to decompress a bit and focus more on relaxation and stretching (I'm still practicing yoga, though). I know I have various imbalances in my body, therefore I'm collecting as much knowledge as possible to address them and, hopefully, fix them; clearly the strength of the abdominal muscles is really important and it's the first aspect I want to address since I already know a handful of exercises, but as you know I carry a good deal of tension in that area, so here's the question: if I strengthen my abdomen will my hinder my progress with regards of breath flow?

 

Maybe my concerns are silly, but…in general I don't know how to get a proper body strength and in addiction be able to let go of any unnecessary tension, so that my body won't be like a cage for me. I don't know if it makes any sense to you, but I've read Kit saying something along the line of: “Do you want to be strong or to be flexible?”. This apparent antithesis is puzzling me. :/

 

 

 

I am a student of Serge's (and read his book)

 

Could you please give me a link for that book? I can't seem to find the actual title.

 

 

 

I know people love to talk about “belly breathing,” but try this: Take in a big belly breath and feel what happens to your lower back and pelvis. What kind of position does that drive?

(http://robertsontrai...-core-training/)

 

I read the article you linked. Funny how the author criticize the habit of stretching the hip flexors: here seems to be the most advised exercise (and it certainly is something I need).

[Craig]

Hey jaja,

 

Serge's book is on my site www.awarerelaxedconnected.com.au/resources (It's called Shen Gong and Nei Dan in Da Xuan).

 

The breathing in Da Xuan is both incredibly simple and quite complicated, as with many things in the system, we spend quite a lot of time dealing with strange paradoxes  The base idea is that you just breathe as i mentioned in my first post, however there are all sorts of techniques that are available to sort out specific issues.  Lots of them mentioned in the book, however I'll list a few very simple ones here that I have used effectively, in no particular order but numbered so you can refer to them easily:

1. long breaths - see how long you can make each of the 4 stages of the breath (inhale, hold at top, exhale, hold at bottom).
2. abdominal breathing - breathe in and the belly expands, ribs do not move much. breathe out and belly relaxes
3. reverse abdominal breathing - breathe in and the belly button goes to the spine, pelvic floor lifts (like a kegel) and the breath still feels like its going into the belly. breathe out and relax. the ribs still shouldn't move much
4. inflate/soften - breathe in and use the breathe to inflate as much of the body as you can (like you are a balloon).  breathe out and without deflate, simply let everything soften.
5. details - breathe in and feel the air as it passes a particular point.  breathe out and feel the air as it passes the same point.

Hopefully these help!

 

But also defintely look into trying the stretches that I mentioned, they will help a lot

[Kit_L]

Let me add to Craig's excellent suggestions the passive back bend over support; there is a video here:

 

 

Forget the partner aspects for the moment; they only enhance the fundamental core technique, which is letting the body mould over a support. This is middle thoracic extension which has many profound effects. All the intercostals will open, the abdominal muscles will be stretched, and the diaphragm similarly opened. Together with loosened HFs, the passive back bend is the key to relaxed, natural, abdominal breathing.

 

There is a diaphragm trigger point release that I will video some time in the future; it can be done by yourself. What I have found is that unless these points are released, the abdominal muscles contract to protect them, and all this plays into kyphosis, chest breathing, and abdominal tension. Passive back bends can alter all this, in time.

 

Finally, don't try too hard; this creates tension by itself. As well (at Zenwoof), it is possible to belly breathe without any effects in the spine, providing you stay completely relaxed. When you try to breathe more deeply or more forcefully, these other effects come into play (lateral movement of ribs first, then movement rearwards of the posterior ribs and, following, apical breathing as you describe)—so, if trying to learn how to breathe in a completely relaxed way, don't try so hard.

[jaja]

@craig

 

Many thanks, I'll put that book on top of my reading list!

 

 

@Kit

 

The passive back bend is on my radar, but I'm still figuring out how to perform it (when I try on the edge of my bed, I inevitably slip away). I don't have a support like the one used in the video and I can't find anything at my disposal; i've been thinking about assembling something like the tool shown in this video, do you think it would do the job?

 

EDIT: just tried on the edge of my bathtub (protected with lots of towels)and it might do the work, but I have to be very careful.

[zenwoof]

@jaja:  if I strengthen my abdomen will my hinder my progress with regards of breath flow?

I wouldn't worry about it. Strengthening your core with stability exercises could only help. Especially if you're doing relevant stretches/massages to reduce tension in the area

 

“Do you want to be strong or to be flexible?”. This apparent antithesis is puzzling me. :/

I really wouldn't worry about this either, unless you're a competitive athlete. Stretching can actually increase strength since you're contracting in end range. Check this article out: https://functionalanatomyblog.com/2013/02/14/dispelling-the-stretching-myths-and-one-of-the-originating-concepts-behind-functional-range-conditioning-frc/

 

I read the article you linked. Funny how the author criticize the habit of stretching the hip flexors: here seems to be the most advised exercise (and it certainly is something I need).

Yeah, the general idea is if a muscle is tight, it may just be protective tension because of an underlying stability issue. Until you address the stability issue (usually by strengthening the core and glutes), no amount of static stretching will release that muscle tension long-term.

For example, anterior pelvic tilt is known to be associated with tight hip flexors and hamstrings. Strengthening your hips and core may help you control the lumbar extension so hips can sit in a more neutral position and thus lessen the chronic tension.

 

You'll be fine as long as you maintain proper technique and stay mindful of pelvic position during lower extremity stretching.

Regarding back bend devices, I have a dharma yoga wheel that I use sometimes, it's not bad.

[Jim Pickles]

Theres lots on the rib vs belly breathing and I wont go into it now. You dont try to work the diaphragm by working the abdomen.

 

I'm posting because you could also try some fascial release around the ribs - lie on your back with knees bent up, and dig your fingers in deep and up inside the lower edge of the rib cage as far as you can go, starting at the floating ribs at the side, and working towards the breastbone, and back, making little walking and tugging movements with fingers as you go.

 

For a passive backbend at home, if you have a sofa with arms, sit sideways on the sofa and lie back over one of the arms. add extra padding (e.g. a blanket) over the arms as necessary.

 

Jim.

[jaja]

Thank you, guys. I'll follow your suggestions.

[jaja]

I'm resuming this thread to post a short update.

I've been experimenting with passive back bends and I think I have found a way to do them properly. Just a couple of questions:

* How many times a week should I do them?

* When in position I sometimes get the urge to cought, is it a regular thing or a sign something is off?

Related to the second point, maybe I should add that I get a nervous cought quite often during stressful times and I'm looking for ways to end it, since it's quite annoying for me and others.

[nks]

Hello all!

As @jaja has noticed, I'm now noticing this too and I decided to take this newly found relaxation with me in everyday life and not leave in the the relaxation sessions. The thing is, now I walk around with a protruding belly  instead of a flat one that was flexed at all times (I'm guessing unnaturally). It's like I gained 30lbs overnight (my actual weight is still the same). People ask me, where did this belly come from! 

I was wondering if you can add some insight into this because it's raising a lot of questions for me:

Is it possible for one to go on with life actively flexing (sucking in and flattening) their abdomen 100% of the time like I was? What are the consequences of this?

Is it natural to move around with a relaxed belly most of the time? or maybe we flex it for a good reason and should be walking around with flexed?

People with flat bellies, do they have different anatomies that result in flat bellies or are they unknowingly flexing them?

It's remarkable how much insight into my own body Kit's lying relaxations have helped me discover. I wonder what other discoveries in lying hidden.

 

 

[Kit_L]

6 hours ago, nks said:

Is it possible for one to go on with life actively flexing (sucking in and flattening) their abdomen 100% of the time like I was? What are the consequences of this?

Of course. Every tense, stressed, and angry person you see is doing this—though not by choice, usually.

If your tummy is protruding now that you are a bit more relaxed, it's time for hard-core hip flexor work. If you show a pic of you standing relaxed (shoot from the site) we will see an S-shaped spine (and a protruding tummy). Loosen the hip flexors, same with passive back bends, and that tummy will change shape again.

In any case, why do you care what others think of your appearance? That's a larger question for another time, perhaps; get going on the hip flexors. All the good ones are free on YT.

[nks]

On 5/8/2018 at 6:14 PM, Kit_L said:

Of course. Every tense, stressed, and angry person you see is doing this—though not by choice, usually.

That's fascinating. I'm currently reading a book called Summerhill (Neill) and the author mentions the same phenomenon with kids (5 year olds even) that come from troubled or authoritarian homes.

On 5/8/2018 at 6:14 PM, Kit_L said:

f your tummy is protruding now that you are a bit more relaxed, it's time for hard-core hip flexor work. If you show a pic of you standing relaxed (shoot from the site) we will see an S-shaped spine (and a protruding tummy). Loosen the hip flexors, same with passive back bends, and that tummy will change shape again.

I incorporated hip-flexor (and soon passive back bends into my daily 5), but just as limbering movements. My hip flexors are always tight regardless of day. Some day more so. I'll go deeper a couple of times a week with tighter side twice.

On 5/8/2018 at 6:14 PM, Kit_L said:

In any case, why do you care what others think of your appearance? That's a larger question for another time, perhaps; get going on the hip flexors. All the good ones are free on YT.

Oh where do I begin? But I'm sure you know the answer to this one.

As always, thanks for what you do!

[jaja]

I opened this thread, but never updated it, shame on me.

@nks I'm nowhere near an optimal level of relaxation, but I've seen improvements. As @Craig said above, HF tightness is correlated with abdominal tension, so stretching them is definitely useful. What's even more effective for relaxation purposes, in my experience, is learn to soften them through specific exercises. Try this one:

I see better results if I perform the exercise after a standard yoga nidra practice, for some reasons. Couple this with a passive backbend (better if with a partner) and your breath will feel reeeeaaaaally smooth afterwards!

[Kit_L]

One's natural (that is, habitual, without thinking about it) lumbar curve, and one's tummy protrusion, is largely a function of the length–tension relationship of all three hip flexors, and their combined effects in producing the anterior pelvic tilt, and lumbar lordosis. This exercise from Liz is not doubt good for relaxing psoas, but IMHO and experience, will not change its habitual free length (end ROM) in the standing position at all. It feels nice to do, and will contribute to whole-body relaxation.

[edit: added later: It is worth recalling that the shape of the spine has changed in the last hundred years; anatomists have noted that the three curves of the spine of modern humans are more pronounced than those of 100 years ago, and I recall thinking just this when I was looking at old anatomy books. All our modern sitting has no doubt contributed to this as well.]

You need a heavy partner and the exercise I have mentioned many times before to change this, both by strengthening it at end ROM (the standard contractions we use) and by lengthening it past its habitual length. And there is way more happening in this process than just lengthening the HFs: there are multiple layers of fascia and the whole abdominal complex that gets reset, too.

 

There is no way around needing to commit yourself to this exercise once a week, or two weeks, and a couple of repetitions of it if you want to change this. This is even more the case if you are a strong adult male.

[jaja]

7 hours ago, Kit_L said:

You need a heavy partner and the exercise I have mentioned many times before to change this, both by strengthening it at end ROM (the standard contractions we use) and by lengthening it past its habitual length. And there is way more happening in this process than just lengthening the HFs: there are multiple layers of fascia and the whole abdominal complex that gets reset, too.

Yes, I'm doing it at least once every two week…although not with a really heavy partner. You have no idea how much resistance I face every time I ask for help with this stretch at my gym. I've had people straight up refusing, people saying they have not time, people doing less effective variations because “this way is better” and personal trainers saying I should stop doing the exercise because it's dangerous. It's frustrating, really.

Anyway what do you think plays the major role into APT, the psoas or the rectus femoris? Lately I've been neglecting the latter.

[Kit_L]

If I recall correctly, one of the refusals you experienced was when you asked a young woman to help you, but she was someone you didn't know well—so not a surprising result! You need to know someone before asking for this kind of assistance. And it may be that your gym is not the right place to do this exercise; this part's over to you—there is only so much I can do via the net. I will add that I have never had a problem finding a partner for this exercise, and I have taught in Italy many times. On the other hand, I have never tried to do my kind of training/play at a commercial gym.

Rectus femoris is THE major shaper of the spine and the major factor in the position of the pelvis, re. APT. 

[SiW]

On 5/4/2016 at 6:02 AM, Kit_L said:

 

There is a diaphragm trigger point release that I will video some time in the future; it can be done by yourself. What I have found is that unless these points are released, the abdominal muscles contract to protect them, and all this plays into kyphosis, chest breathing, and abdominal tension.

Kit, are you able to expand on this diaphragm release please? I have a lot of difficulty breathing with backbends and it feels like the restriction is in two places - my abdomen and also my neck (my sternocleidomastoids seem to constrict my breathing). 

[Kit_L]

I will video this tomorrow or later this week—I have been meaning to do this for quite some time. It will just be a phone video and I will put it up on YouTube but it's much easier to show how to do it than it is for me to type a thousand words to describe how to do it.